Ocean passage for 30 yr. old boat - Good or bad idea?

[roland stockham]

Age is not the issue, crossing an ocean without spending a season ge tting to know the boat and 'working it up' is. People do it but it increases all risks.

[hamburking]

Its a good idea. Many of the older boats were built very well, very strong, and have a proven record. Just be sure the boat is in good condition.

I crossed the atlantic on a 1972 Swan, and we had no trouble. We flew in, and had seriously 2 days to prepare. The first day we launched the boat, ran the engine, bent on sails, and cleaned. The second day we spent $1000 at a nearby grocery store, and spent the day stowing food. The third day we departed Almerimar Spain for the straight of Gibraltar and the Canaries, which took 6 days. We spent less than 24 hours at Las Palmas, Gran Canaria before tossing off the lines once again and spending 20 days sailing to Antigua.

So its not just doable, I did it. Not everyone spends a year or two preparing.

I suggest you read Joshua Slocums famous book. He headed off around the world with a tin clock and no money.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Its a good idea. Many of the older boats were built very well, very strong, and have a proven record. Just be sure the boat is in good condition.

I crossed the atlantic on a 1972 Swan, and we had no trouble. We flew in, and had seriously 2 days to prepare. The first day we launched the boat, ran the engine, bent on sails, and cleaned. The second day we spent $1000 at a nearby grocery store, and spent the day stowing food. The third day we departed Almerimar Spain for the straight of Gibraltar and the Canaries, which took 6 days. We spent less than 24 hours at Las Palmas, Gran Canaria before tossing off the lines once again and spending 20 days sailing to Antigua.

So its not just doable, I did it. Not everyone spends a year or two preparing.

I suggest you read Joshua Slocums famous book. He headed off around the world with a tin clock and no money.

I need to agree. I am general one that says no, don't do it. This OP seems to have all his sh#t in one sock, so to speak.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Its a good idea. Many of the older boats were built very well, very strong, and have a proven record. Just be sure the boat is in good condition.

I crossed the atlantic on a 1972 Swan, and we had no trouble. We flew in, and had seriously 2 days to prepare. The first day we launched the boat, ran the engine, bent on sails, and cleaned. The second day we spent $1000 at a nearby grocery store, and spent the day stowing food. The third day we departed Almerimar Spain for the straight of Gibraltar and the Canaries, which took 6 days. We spent less than 24 hours at Las Palmas, Gran Canaria before tossing off the lines once again and spending 20 days sailing to Antigua.

So its not just doable, I did it. Not everyone spends a year or two preparing.

I suggest you read Joshua Slocums famous book. He headed off around the world with a tin clock and no money.

I did something similar..... 8 year old boat ( my present one) ... flew into Phuket with crew, about a week preparing the yacht, sailed for Oz.....
Almost from the get go had engine cooling problems....
About 3 weeks out the mast fell down... 700 miles from land....
Had to run cooling water to engine via shower sump pump.......

Most preparation stuff is but detail....

However.... for the OP

Rigging.... consider replacing

Engine..... fuel, filters and cooling system. EDIT ... spare impellors and lots of em.

Steering

Batteries and charge system.

Thats it.

[Hoodsail]

JIMP1234: for a start regarding a blue water checklist, go the the marionbermuda race site, look under preparation then checklist. It gives a 6page list of how to prep your boat for blue water, granted this is for shorter jaunt than yours at < 700 nm. I am prepping my 38 yr old boat for blue water, but still have another yr to go.

[Diesel Bill]

Originally Posted by rpjn59

Diesel Bill,

I know every boat will be different but it would be nice to know what you discovered on your shake down, if its not to personal. It might provide good info for myself and others to be aware of.

Thanks

The biggest thing was know who you are sailing with. All my friends are still working for a few more years. So when a friend recommended one of his co workers to crew who had just retired I accepted him as crew. In hindsight I really did need help, watches and other duties. It turned out we were nor really compatible. I like things neat and orderly and he would throw things about and not clean his mess. Used all the fresh water, 100 gals then when the pump ran dry didn't understand the need to turn off the breaker to keep the pump from running air bound. He was color blind and couldn't tell the running lights on other passing ships. We argued pretty much all the time for the trip.
One big mistake was not having a spare belt for the auto helm auto pilot, It discombobulated after leaving La Paz. I ordered a new one in San Jose del Cabo sent in by bus with Baja Pack next day. Of coarse it didn't fit even though the vender said it will. Hand steered till Bahia de Tortuga (Turtle Bay)
We anchored there to take on fuel and I left the boat with the crew person to ride a bus up to T.J. to pick up the proper belt. A three hour van ride on washed out dirt road and 13 hour bus ride to the border.
Upon returning to the boat all the batteries were run down. Couldn't start the on board generator but I had brought my Honda 2000 W. gas gen and it got us back up and running.
I don't want to sound like an ungrateful person as I was glad to have the help, but and it's a big but, make sure you know the other crews personality.
He drank all the beer and a bottle of liquor while I was gone. Fried fish in the galley and left cooking oil splattered all over and didn't clean up.
Other minor things the anchor light kept tripping the breaker switch. It had a 2 amp rated breaker with a 3 amp bulb. Oh well these things are all part of the reality of sailing. In hind sight I really prefer single handing and not dealing with other personalities.
Can't think of much more right now, but one important thing was the original plan was to spend a week poking around the islands outside La Paz but crew had to return home in so many days to complete retirement papers. So it put a rush on what was supposed to be a relaxed trip and turned it into a more stressful situation. I really wish I stayed in the Sea of Cortez for a longer time. Do I sound to bitchy? It was really like the odd couple.
As far as the boat we had done our preps pretty well and didn't really have to many failures. Might have been a lot different doing a longer trip say out to Hawaii but then we wouldn't have been pounding into head seas day and night. Don't know if this answered your questions but it feels good to get it off my chest.

[Kudawudashuda]

Ocean Checklist for older boats:
Apart from the usual (updated electronics, engine servicing, sails, rigging etc) pay particular attention to:
~Leaks around windows, hatches, lights etc. Easier to re-seal now than find where the leaks are in a big sea.
~Liferaft? It might be in perfect condition, but newer technology may be preferable.
~Get a heavy duty bright orange storm jib suited to your new inner forestay.
~Replace items that can fail quickly and/or invisibly- impellors are a good example. Make sure you do it yourself so you know what to expect when you come to do it in a seaway.
~Fuel tanks- Clean them out, then clean them out again.
~Old boats often have new fittings poorly placed for a big sea, check everything imagining your boat is broached. And ask yourself: what is going to come adrift in a roll-over?
~Wiring- check all connections for corrosion, fatigue, etc.

A few tips on buying in Europe: Netherlands far and away the best. English spoken everywhere, boats in top condition for a great price, density of boats for sale mean not so far to drive around. Your counter offer should be 30% less than the asking price unless it's one of the many 'need to sell now' boats. The 220 versus 110 voltage issue you can put to the bottom of your list of concerns. Go to Botentekoop.nl, het grootste botenaanbod van Nederland! for boats and ≥ Marktplaats - De plek om nieuwe en tweedehands spullen te kopen en verkopen for bits.

[01kiwijohn]

Gee, never thought of it that way. My 40 year old, kit boat, served us well in the Nth Pacific. We've kept it simple, have a fairly focused preventative maintenance program and tried to stay clear of complicated, expensive, electronics or other "systems". (Our navigation system is a well secured laptop, with Open CPN, a tracker and plastic sextant for back-ups). But, I trust it with my life.

ps; when we got to Hilo, last time, we were the only boat in the anchorage with a dry, use-able, v-berth

[KiwiKen]

Fibreglass hulls from the 70s and 80s were as a matter of course over engineered, but buying any used boat should involve a cautious approach, like buying a used car, but even more so.

Firstly study the European market and from what is generally available prepare a short list of potential prospects.

Research the designs on line, just googling the make of yacht and model will generally come up with a fair amount of useful data, look for reports of problems as much if not more than glowing reports unless related to ocean passage making.

Find out who moulded the hull, companies such as Tyler Boat Company, Halmatic, Colvic, Nautor had excellent reputations.

Once you have narrowed down a short list of potential yachts of interest, commence your search.

When you have found what appears to be the boat of your dreams, pay for a full professional survey, the rig is as important as the hull, any rig failure in bad weather at sea is potentially disastrous and could well be life threatening. Equally a full inspection of the engine is important.
Don't make the previous owner's problems your problems.

Before setting out on a cross Atlantic passage, do a shake down trip that is sufficiently testing to get to know the boat, and to identify and iron out any problems.

Buying a used yacht can be a bit like getting married, don't buy in haste and repent at leisure.

[maine50]

It's not the age I'd be so concerned about but the lack of preperation- to put odds more in your favor I'd be looking at Rigging, Sails, Electrical, engine, rudder, chainplates and safety gear. I'm doing a West to East Atlantic crossing
to Azores in latter June. I've had the boat (1974 Tartan 41/43) for 10 years. This last 18mo I've replaceed the batteries, rebuild the stove, inspected all chainplates, replaced 2, bought new mainsail w 3 reefs, replaced the headstay,
had rigging inspected, installed storm trysail track, new traveler, redid the propane system etc. This was after I did a offshore trip 5 years ago to Caribbean and back to New England. Still need to replace the steering chain.
Good thing I'm retired
. So I'm not saying you can't do it but It's an ambitious trip for someone who hasn't tested (not just inspected) the boat for a season or two. Tim (Tartan 41/43- 1974) Stratford, CT.

[Pizzazz]

Go for it. My checklist will include the following:
1. Below the waterline, inspect thruhulls, rudder post, shaft seal. Make sure you have plugs.
2. Deck... inspect for leaks, hatches, ports, mast base.
3. Rigging... inspect and replace if needed, carry rivets and tool, sta-loks for rigging repair at sea.
4. Extra sails for redundancy.
5. Power generation plan incl. solar and autopilot redundancy.

Next, think about potential failure modes and mitigation plan:
a) engine failure... not a big deal as long as you have solar for the autopilot.
b) rig failure... you need to be able to put up at least one sail to continue sailing.
c) electronics failure... not a big deal as long as you have a compass but consider fatigue if short handed.
d) catastrophic hull failure, e.g. hitting something and being unlucky... extremely rare, need liferaft
c) fatigue of crew if stuck in a bad weather system for a while... This would be my primary concern if I were you.

In general sailboats have incredible redundancy (multiple sails, engine) so you will likely make it without too much discomfort.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by Diesel Bill

The biggest thing was know who you are sailing with. All my friends are still working for a few more years. So when a friend recommended one of his co workers to crew who had just retired I accepted him as crew. In hindsight I really did need help, watches and other duties. It turned out we were nor really compatible. I like things neat and orderly and he would throw things about and not clean his mess. Used all the fresh water, 100 gals then when the pump ran dry didn't understand the need to turn off the breaker to keep the pump from running air bound. He was color blind and couldn't tell the running lights on other passing ships. We argued pretty much all the time for the trip.
One big mistake was not having a spare belt for the auto helm auto pilot, It discombobulated after leaving La Paz. I ordered a new one in San Jose del Cabo sent in by bus with Baja Pack next day. Of coarse it didn't fit even though the vender said it will. Hand steered till Bahia de Tortuga (Turtle Bay)
We anchored there to take on fuel and I left the boat with the crew person to ride a bus up to T.J. to pick up the proper belt. A three hour van ride on washed out dirt road and 13 hour bus ride to the border.
Upon returning to the boat all the batteries were run down. Couldn't start the on board generator but I had brought my Honda 2000 W. gas gen and it got us back up and running.
I don't want to sound like an ungrateful person as I was glad to have the help, but and it's a big but, make sure you know the other crews personality.
He drank all the beer and a bottle of liquor while I was gone. Fried fish in the galley and left cooking oil splattered all over and didn't clean up.
Other minor things the anchor light kept tripping the breaker switch. It had a 2 amp rated breaker with a 3 amp bulb. Oh well these things are all part of the reality of sailing. In hind sight I really prefer single handing and not dealing with other personalities.
Can't think of much more right now, but one important thing was the original plan was to spend a week poking around the islands outside La Paz but crew had to return home in so many days to complete retirement papers. So it put a rush on what was supposed to be a relaxed trip and turned it into a more stressful situation. I really wish I stayed in the Sea of Cortez for a longer time. Do I sound to bitchy? It was really like the odd couple.
As far as the boat we had done our preps pretty well and didn't really have to many failures. Might have been a lot different doing a longer trip say out to Hawaii but then we wouldn't have been pounding into head seas day and night. Don't know if this answered your questions but it feels good to get it off my chest.

Whoa Dieselbill, I think you have described the perfect nightmare! Sounds like you got off lucky. I don't mean to be flip, but your crew had exponential potential to make things much worse!

[Elie]

By experience, I know that just bought old boats will have all sort of problems, from minors ones to serious problems. It is almost assured that electrical and many other problems will arise during your offshore passage. Some difficulties may really be dangerous. It is not saying that an old boat can't do such passage, far from it. But it is mandatory that you first know your boat, sort out the problems and correct them, before risking yourself and your friends on such an adventure.

[cpt_757]

Originally Posted by Diesel Bill

The biggest thing was know who you are sailing with. All my friends are still working for a few more years. So when a friend recommended one of his co workers to crew who had just retired I accepted him as crew. In hindsight I really did need help, watches and other duties. It turned out we were nor really compatible. I like things neat and orderly and he would throw things about and not clean his mess. Used all the fresh water, 100 gals then when the pump ran dry didn't understand the need to turn off the breaker to keep the pump from running air bound. He was color blind and couldn't tell the running lights on other passing ships. We argued pretty much all the time for the trip.

One big mistake was not having a spare belt for the auto helm auto pilot, It discombobulated after leaving La Paz. I ordered a new one in San Jose del Cabo sent in by bus with Baja Pack next day. Of coarse it didn't fit even though the vender said it will. Hand steered till Bahia de Tortuga (Turtle Bay)

We anchored there to take on fuel and I left the boat with the crew person to ride a bus up to T.J. to pick up the proper belt. A three hour van ride on washed out dirt road and 13 hour bus ride to the border.

Upon returning to the boat all the batteries were run down. Couldn't start the on board generator but I had brought my Honda 2000 W. gas gen and it got us back up and running.

I don't want to sound like an ungrateful person as I was glad to have the help, but and it's a big but, make sure you know the other crews personality.

He drank all the beer and a bottle of liquor while I was gone. Fried fish in the galley and left cooking oil splattered all over and didn't clean up.

Other minor things the anchor light kept tripping the breaker switch. It had a 2 amp rated breaker with a 3 amp bulb. Oh well these things are all part of the reality of sailing. In hind sight I really prefer single handing and not dealing with other personalities.

Can't think of much more right now, but one important thing was the original plan was to spend a week poking around the islands outside La Paz but crew had to return home in so many days to complete retirement papers. So it put a rush on what was supposed to be a relaxed trip and turned it into a more stressful situation. I really wish I stayed in the Sea of Cortez for a longer time. Do I sound to bitchy? It was really like the odd couple.

As far as the boat we had done our preps pretty well and didn't really have to many failures. Might have been a lot different doing a longer trip say out to Hawaii but then we wouldn't have been pounding into head seas day and night. Don't know if this answered your questions but it feels good to get it off my chest.

Oh, my!!
Similar reason I chose to be Single hand.

[barnakiel]

What fails on long offshore passages is often crews spending weeks getting the boat ready at the dock.

Our plastic fantastic boat is nearly 40 y.o. now and we are going on a crossing (touch wood) again winter 2014 and then on yet another summer 2015. She is only 26' long and has sailed nearly 50k miles with us. Ex owners cruised nearly as extensively.

Any sound boat, on matter what age, can cross oceans.

b.