Orca attacks off Norway, moving 3,000 miles. Learnt behaviour?

[cupofjoe]

Originally Posted by sogood

But how do you define intelligence? Sure, humans like to think that we are the brightest most highly developed species on the planet, with the greatest degree of intelligence. But what do we do with that intelligence? We're relative newcomers, having spent the shortest amount of time on the planet, yet having the greatest detrimental effect to the planet. No mouse ever made a mouse trap.

Extremely anglo/western centric viewpoint that disrespects and ignores thousands of years of indigenous knowledge and survival in virtually every environment on the planet. The detrimental effect you are describing is a function of industrial society, a malignant byproduct of human intelligence but not the only defining cultural trait of humans. Once industrial society has destroyed itself, those with indigenous backgrounds and knowledge will be the ones that survive.

[cupofjoe]

Originally Posted by cuthbert

This is really the sort of thing Rupert Sheldrake investigates. Morphic Resonance or Telepathy, interesting stuff.

Maybe there is some way to paint or taint the rudder to emulate some small sea creature that is undesirable/unpleasant and thereby deter the orca.

Or maybe a return to thinking/design used in some the older boats that would have a cockpit/interior table which could be rigged as an emergency rudder.

Having an emergency rudder setup like Hydrovane is going to be more important than ever. Or just have a steel rudder.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

Having an emergency rudder setup like Hydrovane is going to be more important than ever. Or just have a steel rudder.

I definitely agree, a second method of steering the boat to a safe harbor.

[boatman61]

Considering the history of non Orca related rudder losses/failures leading to abandonments over the years I'm surprised folk don't have an option in mind already..

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GordMay

...
For animals, problem-solving and decision-making are functions of their nervous systems, including the brain, so intelligence is closely related to the nervous system.
Once we consider the origin and function of intelligence, from an evolutionary perspective, however, a few important principles emerge.
For example, different lifeforms can have very different types of intelligence because they have different evolutionary roots, and have adapted to different environments.
It is misleading, and meaningless, to try to order different animal species, on a linear intelligence scale, such as when trying to judge which dog breed is the smartest, or whether cats are smarter than dogs.
It is more important to understand how a particular form of intelligence evolved, for each species, and how this is reflected in their anatomy, and physiology.

Talk about practical physiological intelligence:

Researchers reported, June 8, in ‘Cell’ [1], that some octopuses and squid cope with the cold by altering their bodies, on the molecular level, literally editing their own RNA. Editing shifts occur within hours, and are observed in wild populations.

“Octopuses have long captured the public imagination through their intelligence and camouflage”, says octopus study coauthor Matthew Birk, a cephalopod biologist at Saint Francis University in Loretto, Penn. “We’re now learning that they are strange not just on the outside, but down to the molecular level.”

More about ➥ https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...a-cold-protein

[1] “Temperature-dependent RNA editing in octopus extensively recodes the neural proteome” ~ by Matthew A. Birk et al
➥ https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...674(23)00523-8

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by Ryban

There are already a couple of other threads discussing these issues ad nauseum, I don't think we need another one:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3782854

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...=killer+whales

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3787530


And then there were four.

Originally Posted by keithhe

I don’t think anyone has any idea why these orcas are doing what they are doing. They have a history of some very odd behavior like in the Pacific NW in the 1980’s a pod started swimming around with dead salmon on their heads. This was quite the fad and caught on all summer. Then it stopped as quickly as it started. Maybe dead salmon hats went out of vogue.
I’ve read a LOT of speculation on here from accidental injury on Gladis to depth sounder causing this. I think all of that speculation is a waste of time, since they aren’t talking.
What is more beneficial is possible deterrents that don’t involve harming them. As bad as the rudder damage has been and yes several boats were sunk because of this, I don’t feel like they are actually trying to harm the people. They are more than powerful enough to destroy a fiberglass boat, but they haven’t. They seem to be going after the slow boats (sail) perhaps because it’s just easier.
Not brought up on this thread is that there are several groups collecting data on these attacks down to color of bottom paint. Perhaps that may eventually help pinpoint a cause, but I doubt it. At least it helps with locations of the pods.
What I have read with interest is what some have done during these “attacks” that made them stop. All have to do with noise. One guy used his air horn held against the inside of his hull creating effectively a huge speaker and they quickly left. Another banging on a piece of pipe with one end in the water with a hammer and that too worked. These are very auditory beings and I think the deterrent is noise they don’t like in reaction to approach or “attack”.

The biggest mystery is how few seem to have taken this sort of obvious step. Buy an old navy surplus "rattler" alarm and mount it on the hull below the waterline aft. Or attach a stainless plate and rig up an electric fire bell clapper to strike it. A fire alarm bell facing outwards would probably create a quite impressive harmonic as well.

The whales aren't getting smarter, but are humans getting more stupid?

https://www.lubell.com/

[Chotu]

Uh oh. They told the dolphins!

https://gizmodo.com/dolphin-rams-and...rca-1850646958

[boatman61]

They have their own bone to pick..
The Taiji dolphin drive hunt is based on driving dolphins and other small cetaceans into a small bay where they can be killed or captured for their meat and for sale to dolphinariums. The new primary killing method is done by cutting the spinal cord of the dolphin, a method that claims to decrease the mammal's time to death.

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by h20man

OK. another incident but now moving to North Sea:

An orca repeatedly rammed a yacht in the North Sea off Shetland on Monday,

Dr Wim Rutten, a 72-year-old retired Dutch physicist and experienced yachtsperson, was sailing solo from Lerwick to Bergen in Norway. He was fishing for mackerel, with a single line off the back of the boat, when the orca suddenly appeared in the clear water, and hit the stern of the seven-ton boat.

....
Most surprising is the fact that this learned behaviour should have appeared nearly 3,000 miles (4,800km) from Gibraltar. Dr Conor Ryan, a scientific adviser to the Hebridean Whale and Dolphin Trust, who has studied orca pods off the Scottish coast, said: “I’d be reluctant to say it cannot be learned from [the southern population]. It’s possible that this ‘fad’ is leapfrogging through the various pods/communities.”

English story here:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-shetland-first-such-incident-northern-waters

Hi
I wanted to start a post regarding these incidents, by suggesting to launch a hand held flaire in the water just like you would scare bears off in the wild
these things do burn in the water as well and might scare off an attack that could sink your boat
not trying to harm an animal

[roam]

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

Adaptability is a key marker for intelligence, and we are the most adaptable species on the planet. Corvids and chimpanzees are next.

Wouldn't that make cockroaches, pigeons, and rats the smartest creatures on the planet?

[abosely]

Certainly not expert in this area…
Since Orca use sound for much of their sensory input and being able to use sonar, one would think they would be rather susceptible to sound for discouraging this behavior.

Don’t need to cause injury or pain, just make them uncomfortable when trying to bother boats.

Don’t understand why sound isn’t being investigated as deterrent. An animal that has such sensitive hearing, shouldn’t take much to test various frequencies & volume.
Similar in principle to an electric fence for livestock, doesn’t injure them, but they sure learn to avoid the electric fence.

Funny can put electric fence around pig pen, not all need to test it, they learn from ones that do touch its example.

Take the fence down and can’t hardy get them to go through where fence was!

The frequencies Orcas use and can hear are pretty well known, use that information and from some distance, test low intensity sound near pods and observe their reactions to different frequencies and intensities.

This isn’t rocket science or brain surgery, really just animal behavior modification using a deterrent, in this case sound.

It can be utilized similar to shock collar for dogs, very mild deterrent initially, as animal gets closer to exclusion zone (or boundary for dog) the deterrent increases. Soon as their behavior changes ie… back off & leave boat alone the deterrent (specific frequency & volume in Orcas case) reduces & ceases.

After they experience the unpleasant (but not harmful) experience they will stop this behavior.

It would be good if the tests could be carried out by people that know & understand the frequencies and volume of sounds that would be uncomfortable but damage the Orcas hearing permanently.

Basic concept is to make the behavior that we to curtail unpleasant and not fun. Very quickly animals figure out what not to do.

Not every boat needs the deterrent device. Let them experience the consequences of bothering boats few times and they don’t want to take a chance of getting the sound deterrent treatment.
It needs to be strong enough unpleasant deterrent that they don’t try to just endure it so they can continue their negative behavior.

It doesn’t need to appear that people are the cause of the deterrent. Simply something that comes from the boats themselves.

They won’t feel like they are being attacked by people, just gets uncomfortable and unpleasant when they get to close to boats.

Cheers, Allen

Sorry, didn’t realize how much I wrote, didn’t mean to overdo it. :-/

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by abosely

…
Since Orca use sound for much of their sensory input and being able to use sonar, one would think they would be rather susceptible to sound for discouraging this behavior...
... Don’t understand why sound isn’t being investigated as deterrent. ..:-/

Sound IS being investigated as an Orca deterrent.


New Orca Defenses Are in Development
Acoustic devices could give humans the upper hand in the orca vs. yacht battle.
➥ https://gizmodo.com/orca-yacht-attac...gal-1850581974

The anti-predation pinger, a safe way to keep orcas away from your boat
➥ https://www.boatsnews.com/story/4131...from-your-boat
➥ Répulsif à cétacés - Isi Fish

How Do You Keep Killer Whales Away From an Oil Spill?
NOAA developed an oil spill response plan for killer whales that includes three main techniques to deploy quickly to keep these endangered animals away from a spill. [helicopter hazing, banging pipes (oikomi pipes), and underwater firecrackers]
➥ https://response.restoration.noaa.go...oil-spill.html

Acoustic deterrent devices ➥ https://www.bycatch.org/reduction-te...errent-devices

[boatman61]

Well it's started.. what appears to be a US catamaran was filmed shooting at a pod of Orca off Tarifa on Thursday by a whale watching tourist boat.
Spanish authorities have been informed.. be interesting to see if they are made an example off.. to discourage repitition.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well it's started.. what appears to be a US catamaran was filmed shooting at a pod of Orca off Tarifa on Thursday by a whale watching tourist boat.
Spanish authorities have been informed.. be interesting to see if they are made an example off.. to discourage repitition.

Video ➥ https://twitter.com/i/status/1692440270183317960

[neilpride]

You have to be brainless to use pyrotechnic material in front of a cetacean observation boat, they were not shooting anything, because the boat, a catamaran, had no weapons on board, right now it is docked in Ejido Almerimar and has been denounced by the SEPRONA, a Spanish entity that is in charge of the environment, SEPRONA has initiated a criminal investigation and it will be seen whether to bring charges against the captain and the enlightened crew member who used the firecrackers.