Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by seasilk

This is a long thread, so I will try to keep this comment short.

I didn't see anything in the original report that would make me think this was anything other than an accident. I remember that several years ago on the Bahaha, a very experienced captain/instructor had a J Boat sunk by a whale (grey or humpback) when the whale knocked against the rudder post hard enough to break it off. That creates a very large hole in the boat and the boat sunk in 7-10 minutes. Miraculously, all crew got off into the lifeboat and were rescued by the USCG even though they were in Mexican waters. This happened in the dark and it was suspected at the time that the boat got between a mother whale and her calf.

My point is that this could have just been a group of Orca playing in the boat's wake and one of them accidently slammed against the rudder post.

My wife and I were always been cautious around whales since they are sometimes larger than our sailboat, but I don't think we have ever thought they were maliciously attacking our boat. If you want to see that, watch JAWS..,LOL.

No I have seen videos showing more than one Orca coming up slowly to the rudder then biting it and shaking it while it's teeth we on the rudder. Then another took its turn doing the same thing.

This is not accident and it does not look playful.

[NaClyDog]

I don't recall seeing this mentioned, have only spade rudder boats been affected?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

I don't recall seeing this mentioned, have only spade rudder boats been affected?

My understanding is that all rudder styles have been effected include keel hung rudders on full keel boats, I don't have the citations.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

I don't recall seeing this mentioned, have only spade rudder boats been affected?

All rudder types - spade, skeg, keel hung, monos and cats, sail and power.

[JPA Cate]

It is a problem, whether or not they're playing, and what I'd like to know is what is different about the rudders on the boats or what the boats are doing between the ones damaged and not damaged. So far, it seems that the reversing maneuver works, even if we don't understand why. I can wait for them to figure it out. And if I were there, we would certainly try it. And, I'd certainly give them my tuna if my meat line hooked one.

Ann

[Caminantes]

We are talking very powerful animals.

Rudder type, bottom paint color and hull material, makes little difference. These animals are using our boats as discardable practice moke up whales.

I ve heard from people who had success with reversing and motoring backwards. Also with pouring some diesel behind the mirror while motoring forwards.

I also heard from people who tried shooting them, and had a bad experience. The animals attacked back, and with increased violence. Shooting may work, if the caliber and the accuracy of the shots are adecuated for the size of the animal.

I didnt heard of sound deterrents being used against this particular pod, but i bet it would work. It works in other animals.

In any case, the result of any interaction will depend greatly on our luck, our preparation, and how determined we are to get through the experience in one piece.

Sound warfare tactics and acoustic weapons are nothing new. Here an interesting article:

https://www.inverse.com/science/sound-as-a-weapon

Snowflakes like these sound warfare tactics, because the psicological and emotional damage it inflicts, is invisible. Snowflakes can't take the sight of blood.

But there is a war out there at the moment.

People are loosing their boats. And its a matter of time, that we start hearing about dead sailors.

Someone compared the orca attacks with a storm at sea. It is preety much like that.

If we decide to sail that area, we should prepare for what we may encounter when we are alone out there.

Just like we take droges and practice how to deploy and retrieve them. Just like we have storm sails and sailed in high wind conditions to test them (and ourselves). Just like we check the bolts in our keels, or the welds in our metal hulls.

These discusions help us find out what worked and what didnt work for others.

But more important than what worked for others, is wether WE can make it work or not.

There are no universal, ready made solutions and one fits all, orca repellents.

Every boat that sails the area, should choose their method and practice it before they need it.

Orcas are not a big problem really.

The biggest problem i see at port and at sea, is by far... human incompetence.

People who dont know their boats.
People who dont service/prepare/know their boats adecuately.

People who buy gadgets, but dont know how to use them... or rely so heavely on them, that will panic when one of their systems starts failing.

People who panic too easily and give up too early.

People who dont prepare for what they may found out there.

People who cant repair stuff when stuff breaks.

I often meet people who laughs about me and my boats and my routes.

Because my boats costed no money, and everything on them, looks rough on its making.

They sometimes even dare to mention an apparent lack or seaworthiness in my boats.

These sailors are good at spending thousends in their shinny boats. And they are good at drinking grog at the bar. They have a big pocket and a big mouth.

But when it comes to sailing, they rely too much on external helps, and most of the time their boats are the ones who need towing and rescue.

In contrast, i know every inch of my boats, because i built them, and because my boats and i are constantly tested at sea, their systems are reliable and simple. And i know how to fix them when they fail.

I ve had the pleasure of saving a few of these fellow sailors from sinking their boats, from burning to the ground, and also from being stranded in bad places.

Every time it was a matter of being prepared, being attentive, reacting fast, and going all the way with the solution at hand, being relentless and creative, and trying different things until the boat was safe.

I often saved a boat when others had given up, or where crying and about to give up. Last one was 3 days ago, when a trough hull failed at port.

So i know for a fact, that no matter how bad it may look, if we prepare a minimum, if we know our boat, if we practice a bit before we need it, and if we confront difficult situations often enough, we will develope the boat and the character that is required at sea.

Ultimately, it will be luck also a defining factor.

But it is in our hands to cultivate these traits of character on our daily life before we go to sea.

Once out there, alea iacta est.

[goboatingnow]

“ there is a war at the moment “

What BS is this. If there is a “ war “ then a leisure sailor has no business being anywhere near the area.

As for attacking the mammals , these are protected creatures please abide by the law.

If this “ attack back” attitude continues I hope both Spain and Portugal just close their waters to yachts.

[Manateeman]

The manatee crew are always amazed when someone post what illegal acts they have planned for during this “war”. Amused because the posters don’t realize these public and rather permanent statements are easily discovered by law enforcement or maritime attorneys. So now attached to a person and or vessel, we have an admission of willingness to undertake illegal acts against a protected species.
How do you think this will play out in a courtroom.
Let’s say you get a ticket or are involved in a collision or even a civil action. Statements on the web can hang around your neck like an albatross.
Get your gun and let’s go. Who will be next up for killing. A walrus sleeping in your dinghy?
Captain Mark and his manatee crew who remain protected by Federal law.

[AKA-None]

Thanks for that thoughtful reply

That makes 3 now

[Jim Cate]

And i dont hide my opinions.

Perhaps you should consider doing so...

Jim

[Manateeman]

Questioning the decision on the moderators is, itself, a violation of forum rules.
They are not paid and work simply to keep things from going ballistic.
The manatee crew has been handed the dunce cap and told to take a time out.
Seriously told. Thinking it over, we now understand how being sarcastic or clever really doesn’t add much to the conversation.
We’ve been misquoted, attacked, derailed and ridiculed. And we know it’s difficult to temper your feelings when this happens but forum members should have the right to ask the moderators for a review and at the same time, agree to abide by their decisions.
Respectfully.
The manatee crew.

[Caminantes]

I understand, and see the need for moderators. I do respect their job.

Just like referees need to be present at box matches to make sure nobody takes too much damage.

Im ok with having a post deleted.

I just tried to make clear we are all by ourselves out there, no matter how connected and well equiped our boats may look now a days.

We have here different ways, and we go around the same problems in very different maners.

At the moment i feel the laws and prohibitions do absolutely nothing to adress the issues we are facing.

And i guess we are all somehow interested in finding solutions to the current issues.

I m concern about the orca situation because it directly affects my sailing, and the sailing of good friends of mine.

We dont want animals to die for no reason. And we also dont want people to die for no reason.

It is a though one.

Peace

[hpeer]

I do not sail those waters, but I do sail in waters with various whales (humpback, beluga, minke, pilot, orca). This orca behavior has not been reported here.

IF I were confronted with this possibility I think I would try to drag something behind my boat to simulate a rudder. Maybe some of those toys the power boaters drag their kids around on. (Thar itself can make you think.) Or carry a few small inner tubes? Or make something similar to a rudder. Think of it as a really huge fishing lure you intend to loose. Maybe just a hunk of 2x6 on 40’ of line. Try towing your fender board.

If they are playing, seems likely, then go with it, give them a toy. Can’t hurt, might help.

This might be a second market for Porta-Boat, they are damn near indestructible, buy an 8’ hull, just need to adjust the towing point so it tows off the transom. That would be fairly reasonable cost wise. Cheaper than a rudder and a rowable back up dink.

[kram45]

Originally Posted by Caminantes

I am seriously joking.

From the perspective of the orcas, the right boat to attack is any boat that flees, like preys do.

The wrong one, would be the one who attacks back, in the old, brutal, bloody and messy way of the only apex predator this planet has: us.

Yes. Every activity has its own risks. Sailing has risks. Messing up with sailors and their boats, too.

With humour yes, i expressed the fact that to some sailors (who may not necesarily post here in the forums), arming themselves to protect against possible attacks is a very real possibility.

Eskimos hunt and eat orcas since always.

Before, they used to do it from very small vessels and using harpoons. Now a days they use a 30.6 rifle. One or two shots behind the breathing hole do the job.

To some of us, carrying a gun or shooting an animal may seem like a terrible idea. To others, it may not seem to be such a bad idea.

Some people eat vegan.

Some others, eat vegans.

To each their own.

Wow, that’s a really brutal way to go about it.

[Tupaia]

Just did a round trip from Gibraltar to UK via Porto Santo, 2 legs of 500Nm and 1800Nm to avoid ocras.

The interactions (ATTACKS) are now in the hundreds. On speaking to sailors here some insurance companies are now applying huge excesses (deductibles) for vessels travelling between Cape Finisterre and Gibraltar.

Anyone planning on going to or from northern Europe will likely be affected. The option of going via the Azores and Madeira will become more popular but many coastal sailors are not equipped for such long passages and I am sure there will be casualties as a result.