Orcas - What would you do if this happened to you?

[noelex 77]

It is hard to cross the Atlantic and stay in water less than 20m deep .

[Alistair242]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, Alistair242, could you please state the document(s) that comes from? Maybe a link? I'm wondering, what's magic about 20 m.? Maybe the fish the orcas normally want to eat prefer a different environment? Is there documentation of the 20 m. depth vs. the whales' behavior? Thanks very much, in advance.

Ann

Ann. The information comes from

https://www.orcas.pt/

and several other local organisations locally in Spain and Portugal. There are also several FB groups etc.
The orca are following the bluefin tuna, the only source of food for this specific sub species. Orcas.pt have several telegram groups that document up to date information regarding the whereabouts of the pods and the latest re interactions etc.
We will be sailing through here in a few months so have been trying to learn as much as possible.

[Alistair242]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

It is hard to cross the Atlantic and stay in water less than 20m deep .

Absolutely. However there are specific areas where there has been a lot of activity so generally people coming from the Azores or Madeira should approach the coast away from these. At least this is what is suggested by those in the know depending on where the whales are or are suspected to be at any given time.
Staying in shallow water does not guarantee no interaction, but it certainly reduces the odds considerably, based on data over the past 4 years.

[SeanPatrick]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand all the concern about the whales' well-being. If I was out camping with my family and a bear relentlessly attacked us, I would shoot it until it was dead ... without thinking twice. Same goes far a whale. I don't care if it's the last one on Earth.

Some people say "It's their home we're invading." or something similar. I disagree. Where is the line for human habitation drawn? Or any animal or plant for that matter? Squirrels don't stay out of the woods because deer live there. Humans are as much a part of the natural ecosystem of Earth as any other living thing. AFAIK, we weren't beamed here from some cosmic lab. We evolved here, on Earth, just like everything else. Why should we have any less right to roam the Earth than any other creature?

Don't get me wrong. I understand that we, being able to impact our environment in much greater ways than any other species, have a responsibility to try and protect everything else from ourselves. And I abhor the thought of killing any living thing. But if it comes down to my and/or my family's safety vs. the life of an aggressive animal, I'll make the same decision every time.

Maybe part of the problem is that we're being too nice. There's a reason you're told not to feed or try and befriend wild animals. Maybe they need to learn not to mess with humans ... for everyone's safety.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Alistair242

Absolutely. However there are specific areas where there has been a lot of activity so generally people coming from the Azores or Madeira should approach the coast away from these. At least this is what is suggested by those in the know depending on where the whales are or are suspected to be at any given time.

Your posts suggest a skipper "in the know" can avoid these interactions.

What do you think of the OP’s post? This is an extremely experienced delivery skipper who still required emergency repairs due to an orca attack.

I met Sir Robin Knox Johnson in Barbados. He had endured a similar orca attack on his own boat at the start of an Atlantic crossing.
Perhaps, with a bit more sailing experience, he could have prevented these problems .

[Alistair242]

Yes, he looks to be very experienced.
There is no information about where the interaction took place. In the video it appears that they continued under sail when the orca appeared and they were not moving fast through the water. The latest recommendations are to stay on or around the 20m contour in certain areas west and north of Gibraltar when possible and to move away from the area as fast as possible if orcas appear, in the opposite direction that the animals came from if possible.
Some choose to follow these directions and others do not. Some boats do have incidents when following the recommendations but the percentage of these is very very low compared to those who do not. This is an unusual situation and experience does not always equate to good decision making. No one can judge in this instance as we don’t know where the boat was and what they were doing before and during the interaction.
Maybe they were just very unlucky?

[flpaoli]

Although I'm not a hunter, don't own nor want to own firearms, never killed a wild animal, I tend to agree with SeanPatrick's opinion.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand all the concern about the whales' well-being. If I was out camping with my family and a bear relentlessly attacked us, I would shoot it until it was dead ... without thinking twice. Same goes far a whale. I don't care if it's the last one on Earth.

Some people say "It's their home we're invading." or something similar. I disagree. Where is the line for human habitation drawn? Or any animal or plant for that matter? Squirrels don't stay out of the woods because deer live there. Humans are as much a part of the natural ecosystem of Earth as any other living thing. AFAIK, we weren't beamed here from some cosmic lab. We evolved here, on Earth, just like everything else. Why should we have any less right to roam the Earth than any other creature?

Don't get me wrong. I understand that we, being able to impact our environment in much greater ways than any other species, have a responsibility to try and protect everything else from ourselves. And I abhor the thought of killing any living thing. But if it comes down to my and/or my family's safety vs. the life of an aggressive animal, I'll make the same decision every time.

Maybe part of the problem is that we're being too nice. There's a reason you're told not to feed or try and befriend wild animals. Maybe they need to learn not to mess with humans ... for everyone's safety.

There is a difference.. a bear/lion/tiger would attack you as a food source.. either you as protein or the goodies you carry because someone in the past left garbage that they found and discovered it tasted nice and they are drawn by the smell.
The Orca doing the 'attacking' are not adults but juveniles who are likely bored and curious not intentionally malicious.
Orca are social animals, intelligent and not known to attack humans historically.
What would be the result if the OP had done something to drive the youngster off that injured it or maybe killed it.. would the pod flee in terror or, would they gather for a full on assault of the offender and from then on try to destroy every other boat that came near them.
If you hit a container and damaged your boat would you start trying to sink, shoot at every container ship that crossed your path or, just call your insurers and get the boat fixed.
$hit happens, it's a part of life, get used to it.

[senormechanico]

Maybe the pod (if they were good parents) would smack the nasty little kid Orca and put them in "timeout".

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The Orca doing the 'attacking' are not adults but juveniles who are likely bored and curious not intentionally malicious.

Indeed. A decade ago fishing quotas for tuna were introduced to protect the remaining population. It worked and the numbers have increased. So Orcas have a plentiful supply of food and therefore time for recreation. There is a YT video of another pod attacking a baby whale, Alaska I think. Despite the mothers best efforts after some hours they managed to drown the baby and almost surgically remove the liver and only ate the liver. The rest of the whale allowed to decent to the depths.

Inside the 20m contour sounds a bit deep, if we ever make that passage, it will be inside the 10m contour, but its a rocky coast so care needed.

[Don C L]

Some years ago there was a thread about the music of Enya being of interest to whales. Try blasting some Enya. They'll either find it soothing and calming, or they will leave pretty quick I bet.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Maybe the pod (if they were good parents) would smack the nasty little kid Orca and put them in "timeout".

What? baby orca needs something to practise on and a 10m yacht moving slowly will do nicely. Even shaped about right with a "tail" to nibble and disable the prey. Going in reverse perhaps confuses them and puts the prop very close to the rudder. That has to be producing lots of noise that sounds dangerous.

Seem to remember a bucket of sand also recommended as it confuses them if spooned overboard bit by bit.

Pete

[Alistair242]

Yes, we are able to impact our environment and this species. Unfortunately we have done so by killing hundreds of them, kidnapping hundreds of other juveniles from their family units and enslaved those juveniles in small tanks shortening their then miserable lives. We have also decimated their various food sources around the globe etc etc etc.
Killing or harming juvenile orcas playing is akin to you shooting at a couple of 10 year old kids who decide to climb an easily accessible tree in your yard. Shooting at or attempting to harm them is illegal and most likely will end up with you locked up in Portugal or Spain. This sub species are now critically endangered and rightfully protected.
They are majestic apex predators in their environment and are critical to the survival of it.
It is really easy to just follow the advice from those who have taken the time to study and understand these animals. Animals that possess an intellect and family ethos equal to or most likely superior than those of humans.
Take some time to learn about them. Make the effort to avoid them in this area and support efforts to conserve them. Anything else is just non sensical.

[ozolli]

Thank you very much Alistair for those wise words.
The orcas are beautiful and smart living beings. They only play, they never killed a human.
They sink a boat when the dumb owners try to harm them and get what they deserve.

Here is a magical encounter with Sea Shepherd France :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQBIpV-Yx8

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Alistair242

We have also decimated their various food sources around the globe etc etc etc.

AS I explained above, quotas which were very unpopular, did make a difference on the European West coast to tuna numbers.

Originally Posted by Alistair242

Make the effort to avoid them in this area and support efforts to conserve them. Anything else is just non sensical.

How exactly