Orcas - What would you do if this happened to you?

[Martin S]

Must be very frightening. There is a huge amount of information about these specific orca behaviour with the hotspots of interactions clearly mapped. Thatdoesn’t mean attacks can’t happen elsewhere but we have a lot of information to reduce the risk and be prepared if an attack does happen. The Portuguese and Spanish authorities have published. You can also start at theca.org.uk.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by nofacey

Best idea yet! Especially if you have something other than a spade rudder
- hopefully waves are small enough to allow

Have they been biting anything other than spade rudders?
I hadn’t heard of any bites on attached rudders yet.

There’s a boat in the yard here getting a new spade rudder that is nicely sculpted and looks a lot like a whale’s flipper. I can see the appeal for an Orca.

No one’s going to like this perhaps but if I were sailing there with a spade rudder I’d bring a spare rudder to slide in if necessary. I sure wouldn’t bomb them or acidify them.

[rossdv8]

This is the principle behind setting off fireworks and sonic pingers.

This practice appears to be widespread, but the success, or otherwise, is hard to accurately gauge, as few are willing to publicly discuss these techniques.

I guess a stick of gelignite or a grenade or whatever the locals use for reef fishing in some countries I've visited, tossed over the back would be out of the question then . .

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by rossdv8

I guess a stick of gelignite or a grenade or whatever the locals use for reef fishing in some countries I've visited, tossed over the back would be out of the question then . .

Yes, I would agree with that; it’s out of the question.

[volksbar]

Okami pipe is a trump card. Carry a long metal pipe and a hammer. Once orcas are targeting your rudder, lower the pipe into the water and slam the top part of the tube with your hammer. An unbearable ping sound transmits via the pipe into the water column.

That's how Japanese fishermen drive dolphins into bays. By avoidance behavior from the ping. Orcas are the largest of the dolphin family. Very likely that works, and unlike the Japanese original, one does not need to slaughter them...

[wibi]

We took an Orca hit in Aug 23 in the bay of Sines - taking out our rudder. We where towed by SAR to Sines and later with a commercial tow to Cascais. Based on our experience said remedies like reverse your engine, use pingers and trow sand out and even heavy duty firecrackers do not work… the only advices that really works is stay on the 20 m line. We had no issue this spring sailing to the straight of Gibraltar

[charliepsycho]

We were attacked by Orca off the spanish coast last year, and again off Portugal, as were surrounding boats.
Any boat is attacked and any type of rudder (we have a full keel with a keel hung rudder for instance, several Cats lost rudders completely)
Nothing works to put them off. People were trying firecrackers, bleach, reversing, throwing sticks. It was mayhem out there!
On the other hand, we are a steel boat, with a steel rudder. No crunchiness when they bite the rudder, so no interest.
We just ignored them and carried on.

[x2y3z4]

The thread starter's question was what would you do.

What escapes me intellectually and emotionally is that we know what to do when a bear tries to attack us in the wild, when a wolf tries to kill our sheep on the farm, when a intruder tries to harm us or our wife or children.


However, when it comes to protecting our lives from an animal that we know from SeaWorld, movies or other cute moments, we humanize the attacker in an incomprehensible way like a pet and discuss arguments based on humanity. Perhaps we should start by discussing the reference of the term humanity, i.e. to which species this term is to be applied.

I'm just waiting to see what the reaction is when it comes to human injury. I could imagine that we would then discuss no longer traveling the seas to grant the wildlife their natural habitats.



I hope my thoughts have not been distorted by translation...

[TeddyDiver]

They want to play so I'll give them a toy. Towing a fender with an oar might do the trick, or not but worth a shot..

[noelex 77]

The latest Sailing Today magazine ( August 24) contains an interview with Jetty de Koster apparently one of the world's leading cetacean researchers.

His comments state that many techniques such as pingers, sand, going around in circles and stopping do not work. The exception is firecrackers. There was no comment on motoring backwards (perhaps because it possibly illegal).

The other useful suggestion was that, perhaps counterintuitively, a higher boat speed reduces the force the Orcas can exert on the rudder.

Sadly it was also noted that the position tags are no longer working. This leaves sailors in the dark where these animals are located, although, very stupidly in my view, this information was never directly shared with sailors even when it was available.

Below is a short quote from the magazine:
"Pingers do not work, we tested with them and, if anything, they attracted the orcas. People have sadly used firecrackers, but these are illegal, and the orcas are a protected species. Sand does not do anything. Going around in circles doesn't help at all, and stopping is a guarantee for a broken rudder."

[charliepsycho]

Firecrackers don't work, I've seen people trying.

Ultimately we are invading their territory, what would you do if someone invaded your territory throwing firecrackers around? Biting them seems the least you could do!

There seems to be lots of arguments about why they attack. The difference between an attack and playing is moot. Playing with a lion springs to mind...

We are in their feeding grounds in (expensive) weak plastic containers. Whos fault is it that local hunters break them in search of food? Would you jump into shark infested feeding grounds in a tupperware box?

Go to sea in the vessel appropriate for the grounds in which you are sailing. In this case, something you would sail the southern oceans with rather than something to sail around buoys in an empty lake!

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by charliepsycho

Firecrackers don't work, I've seen people trying.

Sailors are reluctant to admit to the use of firecrackers on social media, but in talking with some of those involved, it seems to have worked well.

It would be great to see a proper evaluation of this technique.

[charliepsycho]

What I saw when firecrackers were used was an initial shock, then the Orcas came straight back. But I suspect many people have different experiences.

Speaking to some sailors going to Madeira, they were throwing them in like sweeties and they reckoned it did them no good (they lost both rudders.)

It has to be said, it is unlawful to hurt these creatures. If there is any evidence against someone intentionally throwing explosives at whales then the Spanish/Portuguese/EU courts will quite rightfully make them rot in prison.

Bottom line, if you have a crunchy rudder, expect to lose it to an Orca (or a log) around Gibraltar!

We shouldn't be trying to hurt these creatures anyway (and yes, if you have ever been underwater when something goes bang, it hurts!) we are in their territory mucking about, they are there working (feeding.) We are in their way, not the other way around.

[Don C L]

In my one encounter with Orcas a pod came at me with incredible speed. They were not coming for me, they ended up speeding past. One of them, a male with a 6 for dorsal fin, was submerged deep enough so that his dorsal was also submerged. In spite of that his fin still sent up a rooster tail. The speed and maneuverability of such a large animal is probably unmatched. There is nothing that big that can move like that. It is both awesome and frightening. Our yachts are small and weak in comparison to them so that any playing around they do with our boats is likely to cause serious damage. So I can understand when folks respond with fear and solutions based on fear. Still, I’ve watched 5 or 6 videos of the Portugal/Gibraltar coast attacks and none were what I personally would call an “attack.”

I crewed on a boat that lost its big spade rudder in the middle of the South China Sea, but not to an Orca. Friends with spade rudders will debate me on this but I am just not convinced yet a spade rudder (and the post/hull joint) can be made strong enough to meet any challenge it can find. Orcas are just another obstacle a rudder can meet up with. If we had had a spare rudder on the boat I was on we could have continued on and would not have needed a tow.

A way to repair the rudder post/hull assembly at sea and a spare rudder is prudent for any boat with a spade rudder imo. I am very concerned some reading this thread will instead plan on bringing M80s or using other violent means if they are headed to that corner of the world. We are on vacation in very fragile boats, they are in the only home they’ve got. I hope we will stay focused on the non-violent, non-injurious solutions here.

I thought the suggestion hanging some chain link fence down was one worth trying too.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by charliepsycho

It has to be said, it is unlawful to hurt these creatures.

The law is stricter than you are suggesting. It is illegal to do anything that may "disturb" these creatures. Therefore almost all steps that can be taken once an attack starts can be interpreted as illegal.

However, the use of defensive measures against protected species is permitted (as I understand the regulations) in cases where human life is judged at risk.

The current legislation prevents research and even discourages sailors from publicly sharing techniques that have been effective. We have little data on even simple measures such as motoring backwards, at least in part due to these laws. The authorities will not even permit the direct sharing of the location of these creatures (when tracking devices are working).

For the longterm welfare of these orcas we need to find effective techniques that will stop an attack before the behaviour spreads to a large number of animals.