Pirate attack Phillipines ?

[daletournier]

I have spent quite alot of time cruising in Muslim countries. Ive cruised extensively through Indonesia, Malaysia (including Borneo, Brunei and Mindanao Philippines. I also have many Muslim friends.

I dont really know how to explain this but, depending on the type or degree of islam in a area the attitude and feeling or vibe is different. eg. KL Malaysia has a totally different feel to Banda Acheh Sumatra, Kota Kinabalu is very different from Sandakan only several 100nm away. Brunei feels suppressed. Indonesia varies alot, compare Lombok to Bali.
Most places ive felt very welcome but in others I definitely did not.

In all my travels throughout Asia I have only felt threatened once and this was southern Philippines where I was boarded (muslim) while underway and had to defend myself with a club that I keep onboard.

My experience is the more islamic the less welcome I felt, I also believe the heavier the islamic culture the less happy the people seem to be.
Compare this to the more Christian,Buddhist or hindu areas and you will find a very different feeling.

This may be offensive to some that are reading BUT this is based on my cruising Asia for 5 years, im not religious.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Elie]

One can just be very sorry at this sad news. It is beyond reason to see our world security shrinking a bit more every day. I wanted to buy a new house on the sea side of the beautyfull resort town of Port El Kantaoui, in Tunisia. I ditched this transaction following a savage attack from islamist radicals, on an seaside resort just north of this Town. It does'nt take much to send all good will down the drain for a long time, in any country affected by this terrible inhuman terror. All this security in airports, the warnings everywhere is in fact affecting our liberties, and that is a victory for thoses criminals . Maybe some day, someone will tackle this problem at its roots: The source of radicalism of some petro dollar rich country that we tend to treat like friends...

[Alii]

Can anyone offer a recent/current first-hand report about security measures at Holiday Oceanview Marina? The marina's web site touts "Increased security! Our premises are guarded 24/7 by security guards (2 shifts of 2) and by Task Force Samal (2 shifts of 3) as well as CCTV. People are very friendly and any foreigner are welcome in the area ..." Do they seem on top of things? Planning the briefest possible stop to get Indo visas.

[HighTemp]

Originally Posted by Alii

Can anyone offer a recent/current first-hand report about security measures at Holiday Oceanview Marina? The marina's web site touts "Increased security! Our premises are guarded 24/7 by security guards (2 shifts of 2) and by Task Force Samal (2 shifts of 3) as well as CCTV. People are very friendly and any foreigner are welcome in the area ..." Do they seem on top of things? Planning the briefest possible stop to get Indo visas.

What about your security while transiting to and from the marina? What if you need to go into town for groceries, spare parts or to have something serviced? Has the marina been able to adequately address these concerns? My point only being that the marina can only do so much with respect to security. Once outside the confines of the marina, your security falls upon you and the Philippine government. The government can not provide security for each and every individual passing through who may be considered a lucrative target for a kidnap for ransom gang.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Alii

Can anyone offer a recent/current first-hand report about security measures at Holiday Oceanview Marina? The marina's web site touts "Increased security! Our premises are guarded 24/7 by security guards (2 shifts of 2) and by Task Force Samal (2 shifts of 3) as well as CCTV. People are very friendly and any foreigner are welcome in the area ..." Do they seem on top of things? Planning the briefest possible stop to get Indo visas.

I was in Davao until June 2016. I flew over the Marina.
I asked locals about it. I had hoped to visit it and go sailing with boat owners there (did not happen).

The use of armed security guards is very common in the Philippines. In Davao, a supposedly "safe" city, there are armed guards in shopping malls, movie theatres, outside banks, outside stores, and even at the entrance to grocery stores and McDonalds and Jolie Bee restaurants. They are everywhere. I spoke to several on purpose as I was writing about Davao. I chatted about their training, their weapons (handguns to shotguns). And I liked most I met as friendly people, doing a job.

But, if I were on a sailboat, I would not depend upon the typical security guard to make a marina safe. It was a large group of heavily armed terrorists that caused the kidnapping at that marina in Fall of 2015. They had numerous AK47 type weapons. Surveillance videos showed that. So much for CCTV. The marina at that time had video cameras and "armed security" onsite then too. The guards were suspiciously absent during the hostage taking, and even IF they had objected, it would have been a slaughter of someone (sailors or guards). It did NOT prevent the taking of four people from their boats in the gated marina.

While I feel some sympathy for the marina owners, I would not risk MY boat and crew and family and my own life because they need the business from cruisers.

You have to make your own decisions regarding risk. But, from my POV, I would simply sail on to another location on another island (not Mindanao) further north and enter the country there. YMMV.
________________

More comments about this marina and safety issues are found in this:

Here is a report I wrote about my stay in Davao, including several photos I made from the air of the Samal Island and its marina ("Yacht Club") that was the site of a tragic terrorist action in Fall 2015. The comments in that thread also address questions about security in Davao at that time, and are my POV and those of others. Since that report, there has been a terrorist bombing in Davao (see other link) and more pirate activity including abductions and murder.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ao-165742.html

[Pelagic]

Another commercial ship pirated on the way to Davao

https://gcaptain.com/gunmen-seize-si...r-philippines/

[Gone2long]

See my reaction above to Ann Cates earlier post.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for two years when the Saudis were at the height of spreading their Wahabi brand of Islam to Indo, Malaysia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palestine, Africa, and other many other parts of the globe, in order to bolster their prestige and legitimacy in the Islamic world as "The Defenders of the Holy Mosque", - defenders of the faith and of its center - Mecca.

Indeed, the origin of many of the current terrorist groups, including ISIS, Abu Sayyaf and others goes back to the 1980s, when (with CIA and Saudi funding) many of these groups were recruited by the Saudis and trained by Pakistani Intelligence to fight the Russians in Afghanistan.

If interested in such details, please see my earlier posts for more, and for some VERY interesting links, including one on another Davao bombing ( this one back in 2002) which is engendering some ironically positive historic repercussions at the moment.

G2L

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Another commercial ship pirated on the way to Davao

https://gcaptain.com/gunmen-seize-si...r-philippines/

They are bold Pirates to take on large ships. That is a good report for any cruiser to read.
Thanks for sharing the link.

[Gone2long]

[QUOTE= Maybe some day, someone will tackle this problem at its roots: The source of radicalism of some petro dollar rich country that we tend to treat like friends...[/QUOTE]

... Indeed, Duterte, the Malaysians and the Indonesians now seem up for the job, though their attack will be aimed more at the local manifestations of the problem , rather than at its roots. See my earlier post entitled "Help ... etc" for more. Some reasons for hope do exist - G2L

Phl, Malaysia to boost cooperation vs kidnapping, terrorism




Philippine Star11 November, 2016

View photos


Phl, Malaysia to boost cooperation vs kidnapping, terrorism
More

PUTRAJAYA – President Duterte and Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak agreed yesterday to strengthen cooperation on various areas, including security at sea amid kidnapping incidents perpetrated by the Abu Sayyaf.
Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. said the Sabah issue was put on the backburner as the two countries vowed to engage more vigorously on the economic, trade, investment and other aspects of mutual cooperation.

Yasay said both countries agreed to revitalize the East Asia Growth Area (EAGA) and establish stricter security cooperation on sea borders.
“The prime minister was just as concerned as we are. There is much to be done in terms of cooperation,” Yasay said, referring to the possibility of conducting pursuit operations by either nation’s military or police forces.
Philippine National Police chief Director General Ronaldo dela Rosa, who was present during the bilateral talks on security, said the rules would have to be discussed and agreed upon in succeeding meetings between Philippine and Malaysian military and police forces.

What was more important, Yasay said in a separate interview, was that the sea borders were controlled and secured from piracy and hostage-taking activities. He added this security arrangement was the same one that was agreed upon in an earlier meeting of Duterte with Indonesian President Joko Widodo.


Recent victims of the Abu Sayyaf include 69-year-old German Jurgen Gustav Kantner and partner Sabina Wetch, who were taken off the coast of Sabah in Malaysia. Wetch was killed, her body found on their yacht drifting off Laparan Island in Sulu. Malaysians and Indonesians, among others, had also fallen victim to the kidnapping activities of the Abu Sayyaf.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Elie

One can just be very sorry at this sad news. It is beyond reason to see our world security shrinking a bit more every day. I wanted to buy a new house on the sea side of the beautyfull resort town of Port El Kantaoui, in Tunisia. I ditched this transaction following a savage attack from islamist radicals, on an seaside resort just north of this Town. It does'nt take much to send all good will down the drain for a long time, in any country affected by this terrible inhuman terror. All this security in airports, the warnings everywhere is in fact affecting our liberties, and that is a victory for thoses criminals . Maybe some day, someone will tackle this problem at its roots: The source of radicalism of some petro dollar rich country that we tend to treat like friends...

the problem, as i see it, is two-fold.

first, no one wants to openly say what the problem is because it might be seen as racist or religiously discriminatory. if you don't face the reality of the problem, you can't fix it.

the other post is a good example. the poster was simply stating his observations, from his own experiences, but, he felt he had to be apologetic.
truth is truth. sometimes it is not pleasant.

if cowboys had a general belief that you had to kill everyone that wasn't wearing a ten gallon hat and a part of their number was acting on that belief, while being hidden and sheltered by the other cowboys that weren't acting on it and the large majority of those not acting on it were sympathetic to those that were, governments around the world would be kicking cowboy butt without any concern for if it was racially or religiously offensive.

but, if it's muslims and not cowboys in the exact same situation, everyone handles it with kid gloves because they don't want to offend anyone. wtf?

the second part of the problem is that governments don't like armed citizens because, armed citizens are a risk for government power (the very reason the US constitution guarantees the right o bear arms). however, by protecting their own power, governments have insured that everyone is a victim.

yes, if people act to defend themselves, there will be people who are unsuccessful. but, there will be a lot who are. if people do not represent an easy target, bullies tend to look elsewhere for their victims. every year, lots of Americans successfully fend of attacks with guns they legally own. places with strong gun control have high rates of violent crime. places with little gun control have lower levels of violent crime. numbers don't lie no matter how appealing emotional, unsupported opposing claims may be.

but, you can't sail around with weapons on board because governments won't tolerate it. so you have to be a helpless victim. on top of that, governments won't strike take serious action because bleeding hearts will cry and raise an uproar. which means, you can't legally protect yourself but, they won't work to create an environment where you don't have to.

you see the same thing with regular crime in the US. you can't be armed and if you are forced to protect yourself they do everything they can to make you out to be a criminal and throw the book at you. yet, they won't actually punish criminals, when they catch them, with more than a light slap on the wrist because people would be in an uproar if you treated poor, unfortunate criminals too poorly.

as it stands, government fear of increasing muslim hostility if they act too 'anti-muslim' has made it worse because they know that if they continue with violence, they will get what they want. if the governments of the world would strike hard, without regard to offending people, then these people would get a very different message. punishment/reward associations do work to shape human behavior. so far, we have showed them that there are rewards to be had from violent activities.

but, that's just my take on it. others may, and certainly will, see it differently.

[RokNRich]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

I chatted about their training, their weapons (handguns to shotguns).

I chat with these guys when in country as well. You can get a pretty good idea of the value of goods gaurded based upon caliber....i.e. Jollibee's = older 38 cal....jeweller or pawn = 12 gauge....bank = Ak's...most of which are not in the best condition....

I'm going to try to stop in Holiday View next month, arriving by air.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by RokNRich

I chat with these guys when in country as well. You can get a pretty good idea of the value of goods gaurded based upon caliber....i.e. Jollibee's = older 38 cal....jeweller or pawn = 12 gauge....bank = Ak's...most of which are not in the best condition....

I'm going to try to stop in Holiday View next month, arriving by air.

Good observation!

I saw the same thing. A difference in weapon, influenced by the perceived need or threat or possibly the level of pay for that guard.

I certainly think the guards are doing a job, and most were friendly to me.

But, if a well armed terrorist confronted them, I do doubt there would be any contest at all, as we see in most bank robberies here in the USA where an armed security guard is no real match for a determined well armed aggressor or multiple agressors.

Consequently, I think most of the armed security guards that are not at a bank and seen in Davao are really just there to intimidate or reduce shoplifting or petty thieves, much like we see typical security guards in large retail stores in the USA or in parking garages etc.

There is so much poverty in the Philippines (and in Davao, one of the richer cities and provinces), that I suspect that low level shoplifting is a higher perceived threat to businesses that sell retail and have traffic flow through a store.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

.

Consequently, I think most of the armed security guards that are not at a bank and seen in Davao are really just there to intimidate or reduce shoplifting or petty thieves, much like we see typical security guards in large retail stores in the USA or in parking garages etc.

There is so much poverty in the Philippines (and in Davao, one of the richer cities and provinces), that I suspect that low level shoplifting is a higher perceived threat to businesses that sell retail and have traffic flow through a store.

Exactly....it is mostly to intimidate the street urchins and beggars or hawkers, who would be all over the entrances to retail stores or resorts, if not shooed away by the "armed" guards.
Truth be known, many of them are not allowed to have bullets in their weapons..... which is fine by me.

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by first wind

the problem, as i see it, is two-fold.

first, no one wants to openly say what the problem is because it might be seen as racist or religiously discriminatory. if you don't face the reality of the problem, you can't fix it. .....

.... if it's muslims and not cowboys in the exact same situation, everyone handles it with kid gloves because they don't want to offend anyone. wtf?

... the second part of the problem is that governments don't like armed citizens


... they won't actually punish criminals, when they catch them, with more than a light slap on the wrist because people would be in an uproar if you treated poor, unfortunate criminals too poorly.

... as it stands, government fear of increasing muslim hostility if they act too 'anti-muslim' has made it worse because they know that if they continue with violence, they will get what they want. if the governments of the world would strike hard, without regard to offending people, then these people would get a very different message. punishment/reward associations do work to shape human behavior. so far, we have showed them that there are rewards to be had from violent activities.

... but, that's just my take on it. others may, and certainly will, see it differently.

Indeed, my friend ...

With all due respect, I think that you seriously misunderstand and underestimate the current PHL regime and political climate. When you extend your perception of what is going on in the US to other parts of the globe, you are guilty of what all those politically correct folks call " cultural chauvinism". Actually, you might feel quite at home in the Philippines at the moment, as there is not exactly a flood of political correctness issuing out of Malacanang these days..

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Another commercial ship pirated on the way to Davao

https://gcaptain.com/gunmen-seize-si...r-philippines/

... And the PHL official reaction follows below. Also, Duterte has named a new head of the Navy, escorts will be increased, cooperation will be increased with both Indo and Malaysia, allowing hot pursuit of terrorists and pirates across national borders. Hate to say it, but maybe this guy aint all that bad, after all.

Inclusion of Sibago Island in list of critical areas mulled







By Evelyn Macairan13 November, 2016


















View photos

Inclusion of Sibago Island in list of critical areas mulledMoreTo avert a repeat of the hijacking of a Vietnamese bulk carrier, the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) plans to include Sibago Island in Lamitan, Basilan in its list of critical areas where foreign vessels will be escorted by sea marshals.PCG Zamboanga Station head Commander Jerome Cayabyab said yesterday the PCG and the Philippine Navy (PN) have long been providing escorts to foreign ships passing through critical areas in Mindanao, but Sibago Island was not part of such areas. Cayabyab, who was only assigned in Zamboanga last Monday, said members of the PCG’s Special Operations Group and the Naval Special Operations Group, also known as the Navy elite force Seal that specializes in sea, air and land operations, are often tapped to act as sea marshals.“To my knowledge, this is the first time that a seajacking of a foreign vessel has taken place in Sibago Island. But with the abduction of six officials and crew of the M/V Royal 16 last Friday morning, I might recommend that it be included in the list of critical areas,” said Cayabyab.“I might suggest that foreign vessels using these sea lanes strictly comply and alert the authorities in the area because the sea is so vast and they have to coordinate with law enforcers for their own safety,” he added.The Coast Guard official said they are still conducting an investigation of the hijacking of the 2,999- gross-ton M/V Royal 16, which was traveling from Vietnam to Davao on Friday.Armed men reportedly shot and wounded Vietnamese Dham Yan Trong, a ship electrician, when he tried to escape. Trong is now confined in a hospital in Zambaonga City. The Armed Forces identified the six kidnapped victims as Pham Mnh Tuan, boat captain; Do Trung Hieu, chief mate; Hoang Vo, second mate; Tran Khac Dung, third mate; Hoang Trung Thong, boatswain’s mate; Hoang Va Hai, an apprentice boatswain’s mate.The other crewmen of the ship who escaped from their captors were Nguyen Quy Hau-Ce, Nguyen Sy Nga, Hoang Ngoc Thanh, Phu Van Quyet, Vu Va Cuong, Ha Van Lam, Du Quy Dat, Nguyen Quang Huy, Luu Din Manh, Bui Manh Tien and Tran Van Thanh.They are now onboard their vessel anchored in Paseo del Mar, Zamboanga City.Caybayab said the PCG would finalize an updated list of critical areas and give it to shipping lines and ship officers for them to be cautious when getting near or going to dangerous places.‘Still in the dark’Meanwhile, government authorities are still in the dark on the fate of the six Vietnamese sailors abducted off Basilan by bandits believed to be from the Abu Sayaff group.Armed Forces public affairs office spokesman Col. Edgard Arevalo said they have not yet received any information on the whereabouts of the victims. – With Jaime Laude, Roel Pareno