"Pirates" off Gibraltar

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by fritzthecat

We have no human duty there, the migrants have no rights whatever to cross to Europe! Europe is more crowded than Africa- the Africans have to breed less, if they can´t feed their kids! It is the African political system to blame for not to care about their own breed!

If Europe is so crowded then Europeans should breed less too.

Let’s start with your children. Once each of your children and their partners have 2 children per couple, they should be sterilized, forcibly if necessary in a manner set by the laws of the country they live in. If you already have grandchildren then it should be applied to them also. Perhaps, since Europe is already full, then it should only be 1 child per couple.

You appear to be European since you appear to have started your cruising there, Austrian as a guess since you have a restaurant there. There’s past history of such a system in Germany and Austria so the model on how to set that up and run it is right at hand.

Or maybe the issue is not that Europe is full already, but that they are an inconvenience and you don’t’ want them because they aren’t just like you.


2012-07-02 the catamaran “Fritz De Cat” sank with a load of backpackers ferrying between San Blas and Cartagena. Apparently a cargo ship rescued the passengers and crew. Was that you and your boat? Did the cargo ship have a “human duty” to rescue you and your passengers? It seems a little hypocritical of you.

https://translate.google.com/transla...search&pto=aue
https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...at-sinks-65113
https://www.drivetheamericas.com/cat...a-sinks-july-2
https://laaventuraproject.com/tag/fritz-the-cat-sinks/

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by blu3534

Talking is easy... But you (personally) wouldn't pay for the 30 K€/migrant per year which it costs and, likely, don't face the cultural havoc it causes (Have a look a Sweden and Danemark and how they (are forced to) change their immigration politics, even supported by socialist parties.

The german migration policy fuels criminal human traffic organisations in those seas [1] and also causes deaths because people go out in unseaworthy dinghies (have a look at the numbers in Australia after they got more strict/sane).

I know you are german and knowing the german press I kindly ask that you inform yourself thoroughly before writing phrases like "We have a humane duty there". E.g. you (Germany) wouldn't be happy/able to provide "humane duty" to 500+ million people (which would be interested to migrate according to studies). Thanks.

No intention to become too offtopic, but I see a (possible) relation between human traffic, drug smuggling and piracy. Why not branch out if you are already not following the law?

[1]: (from the yacht magazin) Neben Schlepperbanden, die versuchen, Migranten aus Afrika an die spanische Südküste zu bringen, sei das Seegebiet auch ein Hotspot des internationalen Drogenschmuggels.

Thank you.

Wonder if the german gal knows what happens when you mix poop with ice cream? It destroys the ice cream and does nothing for the poop.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Adelie

If Europe is so crowded then Europeans should breed less too.

Let’s start with your children. Once each of your children and their partners have 2 children per couple, they should be sterilized, forcibly if necessary in a manner set by the laws of the country they live in. If you already have grandchildren then it should be applied to them also. Perhaps, since Europe is already full, then it should only be 1 child per couple.

You appear to be European since you appear to have started your cruising there, Austrian as a guess since you have a restaurant there. There’s past history of such a system in Germany and Austria so the model on how to set that up and run it is right at hand.

Or maybe the issue is not that Europe is full already, but that they are an inconvenience and you don’t’ want them because they aren’t just like you.


2012-07-02 the catamaran “Fritz De Cat” sank with a load of backpackers ferrying between San Blas and Cartagena. Apparently a cargo ship rescued the passengers and crew. Was that you and your boat? Did the cargo ship have a “human duty” to rescue you and your passengers? It seems a little hypocritical of you.

https://translate.google.com/transla...search&pto=aue
https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...at-sinks-65113
https://www.drivetheamericas.com/cat...a-sinks-july-2
https://laaventuraproject.com/tag/fritz-the-cat-sinks/

Frits de Cat was a legal tender vessel.
Yes there is a shipmens honor to rescue fellow seamen.

That does not go for illegal immigrant criminals skipping borders and countries. We are not obligated to assist criminals.
That is why criminals have such a field day, because looneys are out there, telling law abiding citizens and seafarers that we have an obligation to assist criminals in their endeavors.

The world has a fair share of mad people.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

Frits de Cat was a legal tender vessel.
Yes there is a shipmens honor to rescue fellow seamen.

That does not go for illegal immigrant criminals skipping borders and countries. We are not obligated to assist criminals.
That is why criminals have such a field day, because looneys are out there, telling law abiding citizens and seafarers that we have an obligation to assist criminals in their endeavors.

The world has a fair share of mad people.

I understand, they should return to their place of origin and die of starvation or be killed by their oppressive governments because it would inconvenience you. And they shouldn't have so many children either. Got it.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I understand, they should return to their place of origin and die of starvation or be killed by their oppressive governments because it would inconvenience you. And they shouldn't have so many children either. Got it.

It saddens me tremendously that so many people feel this is okay and right.


Sailors should be the last people to be on this bandwagon. Just look at all the people that are upset because of temporarily closed borders because of a pandemic. Those poor souls have to take their chances "roughing" it in their current safe harbour. If only those same people could imagine themselves being in mortal danger daily. Be that from an oppressive government or from starvation or whatever else.



We (as in the human race) have a duty to do what we can to help those in need when possible. In many many cases, a little help can go a long long way.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

It saddens me tremendously that so many people feel this is okay and right.

Sailors should be the last people to be on this bandwagon. Just look at all the people that are upset because of temporarily closed borders because of a pandemic. Those poor souls have to take their chances "roughing" it in their current safe harbour. If only those same people could imagine themselves being in mortal danger daily. Be that from an oppressive government or from starvation or whatever else.

We (as in the human race) have a duty to do what we can to help those in need when possible. In many many cases, a little help can go a long long way.

OK...let's go with your above statement. How much help do we give these folks? How much do they need? Do we let 500 million of them that are in daily danger emigrate to where ever they want to go.

How much of my income would you suggest I give to help them. How much do you give? Do I go down to a subsistence level, sell my boat, and self quarantine the remainder of my life to give these folks a chance at the good life.

If I gave 10 percent would that be enough? How far are you really willing to go to help beside posting on the internet?

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

OK...let's go with your above statement. How much help do we give these folks? How much do they need? Do we let 500 million of them that are in daily danger emigrate to where ever they want to go.

Going with the ol' strawman so early in a discussion? You're asking how long a piece of string is. That is not what matters. What matters is that people are willing to help and do help in any way they can. I feel that putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem doesn't help anyone. If that's how you choose to live your life, good for you. That said, it would also make you a hypocrite if you want to go anywhere outside your own country.

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

How much of my income would you suggest I give to help them. How much do you give? Do I go down to a subsistence level, sell my boat, and self quarantine the remainder of my life to give these folks a chance at the good life.

I'm suggesting no such thing. Give whatever you want and do whatever you want. Why does this always have to boil down to an all or nothing endeavour? Something is always better than nothing. If you don't want to do anything, don't go out of your way to prevent other people from trying to help.

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

If I gave 10 percent would that be enough? How far are you really willing to go to help beside posting on the internet?

I do enough that I can look at my ugly mug in the mirror every day and sleep fairly well at night.


Also, I do realize some people love to see the world burn and get their jollies from being able to put their heel on the throats of those who are less fortunate.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

Going with the ol' strawman so early in a discussion? You're asking how long a piece of string is. That is not what matters. What matters is that people are willing to help and do help in any way they can. I feel that putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem doesn't help anyone. If that's how you choose to live your life, good for you. That said, it would also make you a hypocrite if you want to go anywhere outside your own country.


I'm suggesting no such thing. Give whatever you want and do whatever you want. Why does this always have to boil down to an all or nothing endeavour? Something is always better than nothing. If you don't want to do anything, don't go out of your way to prevent other people from trying to help.

Maybe it's the way you use the language or the inherent imprecision of English but in your last couple posts you have filled them with statements I cannot understand.

I really want an idea of what is the ball part amount of help each individual needs to give and how much sacrifice each one of us needs to make to make this right. If, as you say, we have a duty to help the people unfortunate enough to be born in the wrong country. What is a good sacrifice, what is the duty?

Does each country need to take in the pro-rated number of all the people that want to leave repression and poverty. Do we build cities, homes, and jobs to lift them. Or, do we just let them into the country and fend for themselves. Who pays? How many are you actually willing to take into your country?

What would be effective help for these people, a crust of bread, a host family, a tent city, a state welfare program? There is a whole spectrum of level of help. What are you suggesting?

You are advocating that we all help out. What is your proposal for all of us?

Right now we are just helping the ones that come in illegally. Not a great way to start off in a new country. And what about their brethren that are not breaking the law but are still at home repressed and starving? Do we help the law abiding and/or the lawbreakers?

A number of posts in the thread have been of the same ilk. So, this post is not personal. I am simply wondering what you are really advocating.

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

Also, I do realize some people love to see the world burn and get their jollies from being able to put their heel on the throats of those who are less fortunate.

Kind of a drama queen statement. What are you telling us here on the CF. Is it even true with the exception of a few outlier type people on the planet?

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Adelie

If Europe is so crowded then Europeans should breed less too.

Let’s start with your children. Once each of your children and their partners have 2 children per couple, they should be sterilized, forcibly if necessary in a manner set by the laws of the country they live in. If you already have grandchildren then it should be applied to them also. Perhaps, since Europe is already full, then it should only be 1 child per couple.

You appear to be European since you appear to have started your cruising there, Austrian as a guess since you have a restaurant there. There’s past history of such a system in Germany and Austria so the model on how to set that up and run it is right at hand.

Or maybe the issue is not that Europe is full already, but that they are an inconvenience and you don’t’ want them because they aren’t just like you.


2012-07-02 the catamaran “Fritz De Cat” sank with a load of backpackers ferrying between San Blas and Cartagena. Apparently a cargo ship rescued the passengers and crew. Was that you and your boat? Did the cargo ship have a “human duty” to rescue you and your passengers? It seems a little hypocritical of you.

https://translate.google.com/transla...search&pto=aue
https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...at-sinks-65113
https://www.drivetheamericas.com/cat...a-sinks-july-2
https://laaventuraproject.com/tag/fritz-the-cat-sinks/

The Europeans do breed less, especially the natives. Fertility is definitely below 2 which is a good thing considering the massive overpopulation this planet is suffering. The 3rd world should follow suit instead of exporting its excess population. The "export" process is deadly and also comes with a great deal of wealth loss to both the individual and his home country.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by GTom

The Europeans do breed less, especially the natives. Fertility is definitely below 2 which is a good thing considering the massive overpopulation this planet is suffering. The 3rd world should follow suit instead of exporting its excess population. The "export" process is deadly and also comes with a great deal of wealth loss to both the individual and his home country.

Apparently my sarcasm was a little too muted.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Apparently my sarcasm was a little too muted.

Yeah, well what can I say, we definitely need a sarcasm emoji.

[chrisr]

agree with that, and there is lots of possibilities



is one that works for me

cheers,

[Pelagic]

I think what we should all remember is that we can only make decisions for ourselves, live or die with the consequences, and not try to mandate or over simply complex problems to win an argument.

As far as helping others less fortunate, that is between you and your conscience. Helping individuals in a meaningful way is the practical solution
Solving regional issues is really beyond the I dividual

Personal security is a big issue for me here in S.E. Asia, but I won't my solutions publicly.

Those with experience, keeps those cards very close to the chest

[ahun]

I am pulling my hair out to understand today's world:

- it's ok that the Australian government banned international travel for it's own citizens for unknown period (resemblance to North Korea?)

- it's also ok for millions of illegal (!) immigrants to enter Europe and demand rights like travel, food, free money etc.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by ahun

I am pulling my hair out to understand today's world:

- it's ok that the Australian government banned international travel for it's own citizens for unknown period (resemblance to North Korea?)

- it's also ok for millions of illegal (!) immigrants to enter Europe and demand rights like travel, food, free money etc.

Really?