Plain sail

[Les Fairwind]

Hi folks

I have always thought that the term 'plain sail' meant that a boat was carrying her ordinary sail plan, ie: for a sloop, a main and jib, without exotics like spinnaker etc

But I cannot find any definition for this, just that 'Plane sailing" is navigating by assuming the sea is flat, not curved, and "plain sailing" in that it is easy-peasy

Anybody able to elucidate ?

Fanx
Les Fairwind

[chrisr]

all your definitions are correct. what is there to elucidate ?

english can be a complicated language and 'plane' or 'plain' can mean different things, but you seem to have a good grasp of these three anyway

cheers,

[Les Fairwind]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the reply, but my question is : Where can I find a definition of "PLAIN SAIL" that means a boat carrying her ordinary sail plan.

All the definitions I have been able to source are for the other two versions, not what I want.

Regards
Les

[wingssail]

I would add that "all plain sail" means a working jib, not a genoa.

Anyhow, that's mostly boring.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by Les Fairwind

Hi Chris

Thanks for the reply, but my question is : Where can I find a definition of "PLAIN SAIL" that means a boat carrying her ordinary sail plan.

All the definitions I have been able to source are for the other two versions, not what I want.

Regards
Les

Here. Bear in mind it is an antiquated term normally associated with square riggers. I’ve encountered the term in several of my books but cannot recall which and I have hundreds.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plain%20sail

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Here. Bear in mind it is an antiquated term normally associated with square riggers. I’ve encountered the term in several of my books but cannot recall which and I have hundreds.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plain%20sail

yep...i saw that definition in merriam, but personally i would not include either flying jib or royals in 'plain sail'

this i think highlights that like so much nautical stuff, there is no one exact definition. it depends on so much...

cheers,

[Rucksta]

An attempt at a post ship rig definition.

Plain Sail = no extras e.g. blooper, wind seeker, code #, spinnaker.
Plain Sail could be extended to include sails in the normal working position e.g. no twin head sails or poled out headsail.

Genoa OK?

Material can be anything you like including exotics.

White Sails = basic sail cloth i.e. Dacron - no exotics, laminates, 3-4 D construction or nylon.

I think white sail can be coloured e.g. tan as long as the cloth

[Alan Mighty]

Oxford English Dictionary glosses plain sail as sail ordinarily carried.

OED lists two usage examples, with the implication that the earlier dated one is the first print usage discovered by OED researchers:

[JPA Cate]

The plain plainly looked planed.

Good on your sourcing, guys.

What the actual sails would be, seems like it depends on what rig the boat has. If you've got a sloop, the working jib and main; but if you have more masts, you have more options, as well as windage and weight aloft.

Ann

[HeywoodJ]

Way back in the day (and pulled from Bowditch) one definition of the Beaufort scale was based on what sails a full-rigged ship could carry when sailing full and by:

0-4 - All sails set
5 - All plain sails (the subject of this thread)
6 - Can just carry topgallants
7 - Can just carry full upper topsails
8 - Can just carry reefed upper topsails with whole foresail
9 - Can just carry lower topsails and reefed foresail
10 - Can only carry main lower topsail
11 - Storm staysail or trysail

Below force 5 was "all sails". Force 5 is plain sail and Force 6 includes topgallants -> plain sail includes royals. My understanding, but I can't point to a source, is that "not" plain sails includes things like studding sails and other sails that take additional rigging (yards, stays, etc.) that are not normally left standing. Plain sail applies to sails that are flown from yards/stays that are normally left standing (although a lot of ships struck even the royal and topgallant yards if serious weather was expected).

[Alan Mighty]

William Henry White. A manual of naval architecture for officers of the royal navy, officers of the mercantile marine, yachtsmen, shipowners, and shipbuilders, 3rd edition. London: John Murray. 1894.

page 511:

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

William Henry White. A manual of naval architecture for officers of the royal navy, officers of the mercantile marine, yachtsmen, shipowners, and shipbuilders, 3rd edition. London: John Murray. 1894.

In the pages following, White also discusses 'racing yachts' and 'cruising yachts' and notes that for the former 'plain sail' would also include topsails, spinnakers etc.

page 517

[goboatingnow]

I always understood plain sails to be the normal complement flown in medium airs. This could include anything, but excluded sails or combinations , specifically rigged for light or heavy airs.

The implication being nothing unusual was carried out which is how it’s interpreted in general usage

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

... White Sails = basic sail cloth i.e. Dacron - no exotics, laminates, 3-4 D construction or nylon.
I think white sail can be coloured e.g. tan as long as the cloth

I always thought that the name ‘White Sails’ racing fleets simply meant no spinnaker can be flown, where they define the objective of the ‘White Sail class’ as to provide safe, fair racing for cruising [gentleman's] boats.
Such fleets often feature a more relaxed approach to competition, in which the established Racing Rules almost take a back seat to "nod and wink" handicapping and scoring.
This wouldn't be the first time, I've been wrong, if I am.

[El Pinguino]

'Plain Sail' does not warrant an entry in 'The Sailor's Word Book' by Admiral Smyth - first published in 1867 - and it does include such wonders as 'plonkets'.