Please, do not whine....

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

The trend around here is to charge by the square meter. Measures length over all by maximum width.

For marinas with paired slips and nothing to divide them, this makes sense. A wider boat in one slip limits what can fit in the next one. On the other hand, if you're on a face dock, the logical charge is by LOA. For single slips, the most fair method is to charge by the size of the slip, as your size doesn't impact their ability to fit other boats, you're consuming that slip entirely whether you actually fill it or have 10 extra feet.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For marinas with paired slips and nothing to divide them, this makes sense. [...]

Most slips are stern or bow to, Mediterranean style and only a few are sideways. So in reality the width is the relevant measure.

I had a discussion with the marina manager about this over a beer and it seems, they adopted this policy simply because overall it gave them the pricing structures they want. Before, they charges catamarans 1.5 x the monohull price, but with some cats being nearly 8m wide compared to the usual 4 m for monohulls (all around 45 ft length) and some monohulls getting beamier every year, they just went by surface. Some narrow old designs did get cheaper, but overall it was the desired price-hike.

[Bycrick]

Our marina pays rent to the government per-square-meter. If your bowsprit or dinghy prevent another boat from using some space, you get charged for it. If your bowsprit hangs over the dock, who’s going to get sued when somebody hits their head. And you’re likely to complain if somebody bends your davits that overhang the fairway.

[kayakerChuck]

It's pretty common for me to show up to shrink wrap a boat and find that the owner has mis-stated its length. I usually call them and tell them that I could not find the 27' SeaRay "SeaLiar", but I did find a 35 with the same name and registration number. Sorry, I didn't have the right stuff with me to cover it.

I've worked long and hard to have the ability to choose my customers. Anybody who is trying to scam me can find a different contractor.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Argyle38

A 36' boat that's sitting in a 40' slip pays less than a 38' boat right next to it. To me, they should both be paying the same. The marina is actually losing money on the deal.

that's one way of looking at it but I don't see it that way. what would I know .. I'm just another customer? kinda like the folks who claim we should pay more taxes .. I say go ahead and make a donation to the marina .. but please leave me out of it

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by BillKny

..........the marina owner who had the evil temerity to actually MEASURE the length of their boats instead of just believing them............Come ON, People. Be honest. If you can not be honest, at the very least you can be humble and accepting if you get called out for lying.

Ditto!!......in the San Francisco Bay the permanent slip marinas measure while the transient slip marinas typically rely on honesty. When at a transient slip with my powerboat I voluntarily pay for 50 ft, which is the length from the bow pulpit to the aft end of the dinghy hanging on transom davits even though the boat is a "44".

[MicHughV]

I view some of these marina $$ schemes in the same way I view so-called" registration" fees to join a gym, etc...wtf is a "registration fee"..isn't it enuff that I pay a monthly membership fee, now have to pay a "registration fee".....mechanics charge extra for a "rag cleanup fee"...my local marina has an "environmental fee"...plus a "dockbox fee"....this is all stuff that used to come with your boat slip fee, but not anymore...if there is someway they can contrive to squeeze another dollar out of you, they will. They can't really mess with slip fees, as these have already been jacked up to astronomical rates...

it's just like taxes, there is a "tax" for virtually anything, besides what Uncle Sam takes, there are many others........ real estate taxes...permit fees...license fees...gas tax....etc, ad infinitum, wherever and whenever they can, somebody will dream up another fee...toll roads...toll bridges...fishing license...hunting license...

it's nuts.....cell phone and TV fees.....c'mon, a few phones and various cable channels, internet, wifi, etc.....that is a $300-400 monthly fee...

there is no end to it all...whining does not help....for sure...

[desodave]

Our marina does a lot of transient business but not a lot of measuring. They will if someone complains, especially if the offender is overhanging the dock. I'm in a 40' slip with a 42' LOA boat, same slip I was in with my previous 38. Minimum charge in that slip is for 36' and I'm supposedly the max length they allow in a 40'. Min charge in a 50' slip - if you can get one - is for 46'. I paid on 38 previously and on 42 now. And I share the space between fingers with another 42' sailboat. Thankfully the new boat was only 5" wider at the max than the old one. Can't understand why anyone complains when the marina does decide to measure though.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I view some of these marina $$ schemes in the same way I view so-called" registration" fees to join a gym, etc...wtf is a "registration fee"..isn't it enuff that I pay a monthly membership fee, now have to pay a "registration fee".....mechanics charge extra for a "rag cleanup fee"...my local marina has an "environmental fee"...plus a "dockbox fee"....this is all stuff that used to come with your boat slip fee, but not anymore...if there is someway they can contrive to squeeze another dollar out of you, they will. They can't really mess with slip fees, as these have already been jacked up to astronomical rates...

it's just like taxes, there is a "tax" for virtually anything, besides what Uncle Sam takes, there are many others........ real estate taxes...permit fees...license fees...gas tax....etc, ad infinitum, wherever and whenever they can, somebody will dream up another fee...toll roads...toll bridges...fishing license...hunting license...

it's nuts.....cell phone and TV fees.....c'mon, a few phones and various cable channels, internet, wifi, etc.....that is a $300-400 monthly fee...

there is no end to it all...whining does not help....for sure...

It's all about supply and demand folks. I don't know about where you live - but around here it's a very long, expensive, bureaucratic process to get the zoning, permits, water lot easement, etc. to build a marina. And waterfront property is really, really expensive. But people keep buying boats (lots who shouldn't) and THEN look for a place to put them.


Also, around here, more and more boatyards are being shut down and the property converted to condos - a process which is VERY profitable for the developers.


There's too much money in the world (at least this part of the world) and people are spending it on bigger and bigger boats, and fancy waterfront condos, and running the prices for everything up and up. There's just not enough space anymore for everyone to do what they want, and can afford, to do.

[MicHughV]

I have to agree with you that boating has become a "rich man" sport.
You basic 20', single engine fishing boat has been transformed into your 24-26' boat with twin engines...and now 30' plus, with triple or quads..

Both the 20' and 30' take up the same rack space..but obviously the 30' is another 30% in the bank..

Taking your 20' fishing boat down to the boat ramp is one thing, but a 30' boat....not so easy......so a drystack building become a logical choice...

Plus, gas.....an outboard can suck some serious fuel. My twin 150's eat up around 15 gals/hour at cruise...twin 300's will be double that....and trips and quads..sheesh...??at close on $5/gal for marine fuel, a days fishing ....for me....is easily a $300 adventure in gas ...

Factor in that most fishing boats might go out 10 times a year, the true cost of a day's fishing can be measured in the $1,000's.

From what I see around here...Florida....even the rich folk are thinking...ok, 'nuff is enough...

I know a guy that runs a charter fishing business...he tells me the business sucks, he is flat broke, and can't even sell his boat now...

On the other end of the scale I've seen several area marina's converted to condo's.....but these are not doing so well lately....the slips that come with the condo are being rented out to non-condo owners..prices vary.....

that's the picture here......

sailboats...hardly ever see one these days....

[Redline452]

The first summer I had my current boat, a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2 (the model) which is 46' 5" LOA according to its spec, I asked for and paid for 50' alongside so as to be sure of having enough room to get in and out. Not convinced the marina was happy about it, as it did limit what they could be ahead/behind me, and the next year we agreed on something closer to actual length.


At our current club, dockage goes by specification length x width (with a one-time premium over 14' beam (that extra 8" cost me dearly). They did recently measure boats overall length (from bow pulpit to aft edge of solar panels, 49'9"!) but not for dockage, rather to fit everything in the yard for winter storage. Seems those 4' swim platforms were taking up a lot of space...

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by BillKny

Every dockmaster knows EXACTLY how far apart his pilings are, and how many dock boards there are per foot. You can fib all you want, but he KNOWS.

Or SHE knows!

As a Harbourmaster, I definitely understand the drill of your Dockmaster-friend.

It's all wrapped up together, too. If I put a 45' boat in a 40' slip based on the Owner's assertions, that slip (which would fit a 40' boat) may not fit that 45' boat + beam. Which then creates a knock-on liability for us (marina/club) if the boat gets damaged (or, even worse, the boat *next* to it gets damaged because it's just too tight).

As well, the majority of my big slips had 50AMP power hookups. Let's say I put a 45' in a 40'/30AMP slip because that's what I was told. Next thing, I have a boat owner claiming they have inadequate power (well, no 30 AMP anyway) and need to move.

My dockhands have already been out there and got that boat settled/secured. Now I have to find bigger slip and send staff out there again?

Lots of headaches...
LittleWing77

[Island Time O25]

Last 40-50 years we've seen, on top of privatization, monetization of formerly public places. From free anchorage fields becoming pay mooring fields to formerly free highways becoming toll roads after some cosmetic work, etc.

The shortage of dockage berths and consequently their pricing going up is certainly artificial creation. And it will get worse before it gets better. In the big political picture the average non-trust fund boater is a tiny slice of the electorate.

[MicHughV]

But...I wonder....

First time I ever went to the Abaco's Bahamas, was in early 80's.
Not much going on then, yachties were welcomed with open arms. Not too many sailboats around, and even less power boats. It was a pretty awesome time. The yachties that did arrive there, were you home grown variety....boats were nothing fancy or extravagant...fancy electronics had yet to arrive...navigation was still done by hand....charts were paper.....there was no cell phone...WOM was your link to Statesides.....if you had SSB.....
Ha...I can remember using the "post restante" feature.....where the local post office would hold you mail...

In the ensuing years, new marina's sprung up....previously " free" anchorage had become "paid" mooring fields, the charter boats arrived...etc, etc, etc...

Yachting became a "business".....bars sprung up on every street corner, and if there was a way the locals could make a dime of you, they did. Can't blame them off course, but.........

Then hurricane Dorian came along and pretty much obliterated everything. The entire yachting industry ground to a halt and has shown little signs of rejuvenating since. Every Tom, Dick and Harry that was out to exploit the yachtie is gone.

I feel the modern local yachting state is going to face a similar issue. I don't know what will bring it on.....a hurricane....who knows..but something....something has to give.....

From where I'm standing, my perspective is that it has already started. The boating industry isn't anywhere near the frenetic state it was just a year ago.

The fuel prices as explained above is but one thing...lack of facilities for Joe Blow and his 20' fishing boat, etc, etc, etc...

I can't hazard a guess as to how it will all end, or when.....but I think things will get a lot worse, before it gets better again.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Last 40-50 years we've seen, on top of privatization, monetization of formerly public places. From free anchorage fields becoming pay mooring fields to formerly free highways becoming toll roads after some cosmetic work, etc.

The shortage of dockage berths and consequently their pricing going up is certainly artificial creation. And it will get worse before it gets better. In the big political picture the average non-trust fund boater is a tiny slice of the electorate.

That's an AWFUL lot of whining for a thread titled "Please, do not whine..." Or maybe you are whingeing? I am not sure I know the difference...