Please talk me out of it..

[libspero]

Has anyone seen a boat of their dreams at an unbelievable price.. only to realise there is probably a very good reason for it?

I love the idea of one day owning a Peterson/Formosa 44/46.. they seem like really nice boats and one day I would love to sail one. I have/had no intention of buying anything like this for at least a few years, mainly because of the cost and the fact we have two very small babies so not a lot of spare time.

BUT, an absolute bargain has come on the market near me and I'm finding it very hard to reason with myself. It seems to have had almost no work done on it since new as far as I can tell.. so the list of things that probably need doing are:

Chain Plate
Rudder
Possible damp in deck
Possible new engine
New water / fuel tanks
New sails and sheets
New carpentry for the toe rails and most wooden deck fittings
Probably new wiring
Probably new cutless bearings etc
Possibly new winches and deck hardware
Plus any other issues that could be lurking under the surface..

How much is this likely to cost to fix and am I an idiot for even considering it?

Alternatively, is a boat of this "vintage" always going to need most of these anyway in which case you might as well start off with something cheap so when the costs start to pile up at least you started from a low base?

Any wise words or shared experiences from the CF hive mind are very welcome

[Liam Wald]

The list you are showing could cost $50-$75K or more to do right.
Add that to the "unbelievable price" the boat is being offered for and is it still such a good deal?

[Vasco]

Don't do it unless you can afford to waste ten years of your time and lots of money.

[libspero]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

The list you are showing could cost $50-$75K or more to do right.
Add that to the "unbelievable price" the boat is being offered for and is it still such a good deal?

Thanks for the costings guesstimate.. that certainly puts it into some kind of perspective.

It would bring the total price in at around $95k-$120k.. which would be at the top end of the market price for such a boat. But I suppose with the benefit of knowing that everything that should be done, has been done.

Right now that would be more than my finances could bear though, plus, being based in Europe I expect the cost might be a bit more than in the US where these boats seem to be more common.

Thanks!

[UNCIVILIZED]

Yes, the list you put together is one that's HUGE in terms of time & money needed to fix, & or replace everything. And that's assuming that you have the skill set to evaluate what level of repair each particular system requires, along with how to do such. Even if you hire those repairs out, since you'll have to pass judgement on whether or not they've been done well. Given that the life of your family may/will depend on some of the listed ones.

Here's a resource on KP44's, hope it helps Peterson Cutter Website - Welcome

PS: Build a sailing dinghy/tender in the garage in your "free time", & enjoy being a dad. Oh, & take'em sailing as soon as you can if you haven't already. It's never too early.
Your next boat/DIY garage project --> PT Eleven Nesting Dinghy home page

[libspero]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Don't do it unless you can afford to waste ten years of your time and lots of money.

Lol.. I'm sure that's true! Though from what I am told is the case with any boat

[SFS]

It would be an enormous amount of work, money, time, sweat etc. assuming you did most of it yourself. By coincidence, I was looking at KP boats today on YW and the 44/46 footers ranged from 31K to 145K in US dollars. Gives you an idea what condition is worth.

Sometimes the most expensive boat is the one that is free, or nearly so. I agree with the idea of building something small in your garage, and teaching your family to sail.

[libspero]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Yes, the list you put together is one that's HUGE in terms of time & money needed to fix, & or replace everything. And that's assuming that you have the skill set to evaluate what level of repair each particular system requires, along with how to do such. Even if you hire those repairs out, since you'll have to pass judgement on whether or not they've been done well. Given that the life of your family may/will depend on some of the listed ones.

Here's a resource on KP44's, hope it helps Peterson Cutter Website - Welcome

PS: Build a sailing dinghy/tender in the garage in your "free time", & enjoy being a dad. Oh, & take'em sailing as soon as you can if you haven't already. It's never too early.
Your next boat/DIY garage project --> PT Eleven Nesting Dinghy home page

Thanks Uncivilized.. the list is a "worst case" based on the known / common issues with the KP44s.. the one that definitely needs doing is the water and fuel tanks which are a massive pain and are visibly badly corroded. Still, even if only half the items need doing it will be a major project as you say and I presently don't have any experience of anything over 22 ft. I think your advise on a small dingy for the family is probably pretty sound

[CaptJamesCook]

What the others have said is all good advice.

Re: Please talk me out of it..

Okay here goes ~ If you do buy that boat at this time your weenie will shrivel up and drop off!~ how did that sound?

But if you go forward make sure you make plenty of time and money for Family time. Pay attention your kids they grow up fast.. Pay attention to your wife she is Precious beyond belief. Show her and your kids you love them everyday. Your boat is only a chunk of fiberglass and scrap metal.

[sailorboy1]

It's a money pit! Run away unless what you really want to do is drop time and money working on a boat instead of using one.

[JPA Cate]

Your list is incomplete. Consider the black iron tanks, and the furniture that has to be removed and replaced for you to replace the tanks. Add it to the list.

Instead, please consider the following:
Get yourself a small boat, perhaps a trailer-sailer and enjoy the heck out of it with your wife and kids, for a small cost. Once you've become a sailing family, then think about a larger or a voyaging boat.

Something else to consider is where you would have the sleeping quarters for your kids, in the teen years, if you become a sailing family.

Ann

[Don C L]

I know what it is like to be bitten and smitten... let her go, there are better deals out there. Good luck!

[UNCIVILIZED]

Keep in mind that just the "day to day" upkeep on a boat that size can be a real challenge for a couple with older kids. As in ones old enough to entertain themselves, or go off & play, without you worrying about them getting into any trouble. Since just putting a boat that size to bed after a daysail can take a couple an hour or two sometimes. And that's if no real cleaning is needed, or repairs required.

Also, add these to your to do list for her:
Entire rig rebuild. Meaning strip off every wire, nut, bolt & fitting on the tube. Clean them up, brite polish them, inspect for cracks. Hire out the new ones to be made. Reinstall all of your tangs, put in new electrical conduit & redo all mast electrical wiring. Replace all lighting on spar. Run new coax cable for VHF. Fabricate all new standing rigging. Ditto running rigging. Re-attach all fittings, after properly electrically isolating metals from each other. Check mast step, & rebuild as needed. Drop lead keel, remove all fairing/bedding putty from both lead & keel stub. Inspect for damage, praying that there is none. Pot keel onto stub with epoxy/milled fibers mix. Drop keel, slather top with flexible sealant, & lower boat onto it. Tighten bolts to proper torque spec's. Fair keel seam once cured.
Strip bottom paint from entire boat, as odds are there's 3-5mm of paint on there right now. Fair bottom (grinders, AND longboards). Repaint bottom. Service, & probably replace, all seacocks. Ditto hoses & hose clamps. New fuel filtration & bleeding system - Dual Raycors with a vacuum gauge, & valve manifolds. Service all sails, & order new as required... after spending 100hrs talking to sailmakers & researching sails & sailcloth online. Tear out old electronics, agonize over what new setups to get. Spend 100hrs installing & calibrating them, as well as teaching them how to play together. Take off every single deck fitting & fastener, fix soft spots in deck, oversize fastener holes & reattach every piece of deck hardware. Repaint topsides & decks, as well as redoing nonskid. Replace all hatch & porthole gaskets. Add more passive & active ventillation, along with bug screens. Add heating system. Rebuild heads, all plumbing for same, including holding tanks. Order or make new cushions, ditto curtains. Create onboard storage for EVERYTHING (2-5 tons of gear). Inspect & upgrade all safety equipment, especially with kids in mind while doing so. Select, inspect, & install ground tackle. Ditto docklines, fenders, chafing gear, etc. Teach Everyone to sail; first the family, then friends & their families...
And there's much, much more


PS: Spray entire inside of cabin with 8+ coats of perfect varnish. Also, become an expert at getting cured epoxy out of hair, ditto agents like 5200, & Never Seez... while managing to get some on every piece of clothing in the family. No joke.

[SFS]

^ What he said.

[bsurvey]

you better get a survey of the hull or at least sound tap it your self, haul the boat or have it looked at by a diver for blisters or worse.


a Formosa is not the most well built boat