Presentation and Project Advice

[messias]

Hello there,

First of all, since this is my first posting, It´s due some introduction and I also would like to say that the reading on this pages is fenomenal!
I´m Portuguese, 37 yo, done extensive sailing... when I was young! Now I want to recapture those unique sailing moments, but... having not set a foot in a sailboat for more than 15years (although I have owned a motorboat for diving), I guess I will have to start all over again when it comes to "sails and wind directions"... and all the rest as well!

That said, I´m currently trying to choose a design that will actually fit my needs and reality, rather than what I would dream in having! I´m living in the Czech Republic and my wife (probably by the absence of salt water in the country) is not too keen on floating devices, especially the ones that heel but still she encourages me in "going for it". So the question arrises:
"What" should I be looking at? The Czech Republic does not have a shore line although one can reach the ocean through the rivers and lakes... far away... but feasable. I would like to find a design where I could start taking my wife sailing in calm waters, that would be confortable for the long cruising days in the rivers up to Germany... and one day eventually capable of doing some real costal cruising miles (kind of like "epoxy-coating-her", one step at a time )
I´m really NOT in a hurry, but the most probable and smart advice of buying one design now and another later on, is simply not sustainable. I would rather wait another year or two and buy a "capable thing", rather than buying a small, wet, unstable and unconfortable design that will definatly make me cruise alone...

By the "requirements", I recon it has to be something on the "bigger" side, but i can keep it in the water at all times, that is no problem.

Since I already have the "coastal licence", but I´m lacking the experience, I´m already in for some sailing lessons again. I´m not aiming at anything "flashy" or modern, nor do I hold anything against the hull material since they all have their specific advantages.. jut want to keep it simple, reliable, long lasting... and comfy.


Well... hoping for you to shed some light into this and thanking you in advance,
Messias.

[Ex-Calif]

Welcome aboard Messias and good luck with your pursuit!

I am completely unqualified to offer any advice for sailing in the Czech Republic. Are there any navigable lakes?

[messias]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Welcome aboard Messias and good luck with your pursuit!

I am completely unqualified to offer any advice for sailing in the Czech Republic. Are there any navigable lakes?

Hello Ex-Calif!

Yes, there are some really big ones. In fact the waterways are very interesting, both the scennery and the country are beautiful, but beeing a portuguese guy and a diver... i miss the salt and the spray! And that´s one of the reasons of starting the project right here, because since we are a "mixed-couple", we spend a couple of years in one place and then on the other... with a little bit of luck... we´ll sail there!

So I guess you can advise me! Just do it like if there was salted-water here.

All the best,
Messias

[Ex-Calif]

Well looking at a map it would be an absolutely amazing trip to navigate from CR to Germany. Would the navigable rivers bring you east or west of Denmark?

On the opinion front... If you alternate to Portugal I'd consider getting a small lake boat and enjoy some vacation time on your local lakes and rivers and then when it is your country's turn buy a boat in Portugal.

My opinion of course is biased by...

- I am lazy and the complexities of sailing out through Germany would be daunting for me
- I am warm blooded - I would hate sailing that far north
- Aside from the Southwest Pacific (where I am) cruising from Portugal all the way to Greece would offer such a wide variety of experience that is all I would need for the rest of my life
- I agree with breaking the boss into sailing in a controlled, safe and fun manner. A 22-26 foot boat should provide a wealth of adventure for now. I don't know your SO but sometimes guys like to do the hard thing, simply because it is hard.
- Unless the "passage" in uncomfortable northern latitudes is something that you both find exciting, I would vote for buying the boat in a place where, you as a water guy/diver/etc. and her can share your passion for the fun part of the water, not the cold, storms, rain and hardships.

But hey, like I said - It's just my opinion.

As an aside I bought a 26 foot boat 6 years ago for like $10k US. If the boat sank today I would have had all the fun I needed. We've had plenty of sun, fin and adventure for very little investment.

[David_Old_Jersey]

You will need to plan your route out of the Czecg Republic before buying - especially in regard to any draft and height restrictions (in addition to the masts likely needing to come down). Plus possible that might be some locksize restrictions (I have no idea! - but IMO a good idea to check first!). Of course could end up using a lorry for at least part of the Journey......

I suspect the biggest problem would be finding something to buy in your locale - given your future intentions I suspect that most boats locally won't be intended to voyage the high seas / far and wide......and perhaps also have to factor in how usable (and fun) something big enough for later actually is locally......of course could buy at the coast and then bring her "Home" to Czech Republic!

I know you don't want to hear that buy a different boat later - but that would be my first option! Obviously the Czech Republic not got Med style weather, but nonetheless to get the Missus into the sailing side (and associating boats with fun - not with being cold and wet!) I would only be picking nice days no matter what the boat was - so going small and even open! not such a biggie if the plan is gentle day sailing and a lot of chilling at anchor / ashore.

Anyway, a nice puzzle to have........

[micah719]

6m seems to be the popular size for a handy inland boat around these parts (60km from the Czech border), and is also ideal for coastal cruising. Mind you, they're mostly daysailors and not kitted out for expedition-style voyaging, but in that size range not horribly expensive to refit. There are some nice large dams scattered about, and various lakes and of course the rivers and canals. Try the local sailing clubs, probably a good start on the learning and acquisition journey. Or, get in touch with me mid to late 2013, might have a boat in the works; John Welsford Whaler 6m.

[messias]

Thanks for contributting Ex-Cliff,

The route from the Czech Republic could go towards denmark both ways: From Prague, taking the Vlatava river that turns into the Elbe, all the way up to Hamburg, or taking a turn in the Elbe at Magdeburg and head to Berlin, through the Havel and Oder rivers ending up in Szczecin, in the Baltic Sea.
There are options for a lifetime, for one could extend as far as inland Russia or take almost the whole european tour and pass Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria up to the Black Sea

As for boats, I was originaly thinking in the range of 26´~30´ boat, because I´ll buy used... and the affordable older designs that i see are a bit "tight" inside. Well, from my description one could recommend a canal boat or barge!
It has to be "livable"... but it has to be a sailing boat!

David, I could be wrong but I think the problem is not the route out, because it´s a cargo shipping route as well, and a small sailboat is no match for those medium size ships...But you raised a very important question, so I´ll check it out better. The problem, like you said, is the market offer around these parts for something with sails... but now you made the option of buying abroad and making the trip in instead of out, starting to grow on me
As for the weather, we have it all: From +30 to -26ºC... It needs a cabin.

Micah719 (we are almost neighbours) I´m already in touch with the local sailing "spots" (and I´ve found a complete 22´,26´,28´,29´and 30´rental fleet in a lake, 200km south of Prague). Take a look here: http://www.noesailing.com/cs/pronaje...lachetnic.html

Originally Posted by micah719

Or, get in touch with me mid to late 2013, might have a boat in the works; John Welsford Whaler 6m.

That John Welsford Whaler of yours is a pretty boat... but we can talk about that 14m Steel Junk-rig Schooner you´re designing

Thanking you all for the inputs, can you recommend a seriously constructed boat that could fit in the picture?
Messias

[messias]

It just strucked me... should I be looking for some kind of "motor-sailer" compromise?

I would prefer a true sailboat, but due to the specific requirements maybe that could be the answer (smaller rig, better engine with less effort on strong currents in straight canals where there is not sufficient space to manouver under sail)... just wondering?

And in that case, I could go smaller... but probably more expensive

[Ex-Calif]

Actually my mind keeps thinking canal boat...

Sailing on rivers is difficult - the wind is not always cooperative.

[Szczecin]

You can also start your travel in Ostrava and sail on the Odra river (Oder in German) through Racibórz, Kędzierzyn-Koźle, Opole, Wrocław, Głogów, Krosno Odrzańskie, Frankfurt (Oder) and Słubice, Kostrzyn nad Odrą, Cedynia, Schwedt (Oder), Gryfino, Szczecin and Police to Szczecin Lagoon, with some marinas in Stepnica, Trzebież, Nowe Warpno and Ueckermünde. Then you can choose one from three branches:
1) Dziwna: Wolin, Kamień Pomorski and Dziwnów (Poland),
2) Świna: Świnoujście (Poland)
or
3) Peene: Wolgast and Peenemünde (Germany).
This way you can also reach a coast of the Baltic Sea.