Priorities of boat buying.

[CptCrunchie]

Seems my posting Steve Dashew's comment has differing interpretations. I have read pretty much everything he has published, and I have also read others perspectives that differ with his.

I read it as, 'choosing a longer waterline would make more sense than buying a smaller boat because it has a watermaker'.

The hull, rigging and sails, and a working engine are mandatory and should already be addressed within the budget. I believe he's referring to where the priority should be placed AFTER those have been addressed.

Since he is a boat designer, sailor, published writer of numerous well received books on sailing and seamanship, I doubt he would make any statement that would encourage someone to purchase a boat that was too big for them to handle.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

Seems my posting Steve Dashew's comment has differing interpretations. I have read pretty much everything he has published, and I have also read others perspectives that differ with his.
I read it as, 'choosing a longer waterline would make more sense than buying a smaller boat because it has a watermaker'.

Why wouldn't you read it as 'choosing a longer waterline would make more sense than buying a smaller boat because it had new sails'? Or 'because it had an adequately sized windlass and anchor tackle'? Or whatever? What you actually posted initially was -

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

In one of Steve Dashew's books, he suggests buying as long a waterline as your budget can afford. Do you agree with this statement?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

Thank you for the thought, but that's not an option I would consider. I already have a 2Kw Honda generator, so I'm well aware of its fuel consumption, and the amount of gasoline I would need to run it for a couple of months is the deal breaker.

I will only carry enough gasoline for the kicker, which will likely be 4 x 5ga Gerry cans tied to the mid railings. If we take the tender ashore in some calm bay, we will be using the Armstrong outboards, and the kicker will stay on its mount.

I do not like carrying gasoline on a boat.

Hey.. no worries.. your the one wants a genset..
Personally I'm like Jim.. wind and solar with a good alternator should be all any boat needs.. unless your after AC and all the other bells and whistles.

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie
In one of Steve Dashew's books, he suggests buying as long a waterline as your budget can afford. Do you agree with this statement? (quote)

Your budget could likely buy a 120ftr.. but fixing it up could last a life time..
Buy the longest and best condition ready to go you can afford else you'll end up just another wannabe fixing up in a b/yard somewhere.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

Years ago when I first caught the sailing bug, I read everything I could get my hands on. (I'm one of those types who reads software manuals from cover to cover before I load it on my puter. I have no patience to hunt and pick; I need to know as much as possible about how it works BEFORE I use it.) Our intention is to be in the US PNW for 3 months a year, and the rest in the palm tree lined bays of the South Pacific.

In one of Steve Dashew's books, he suggests buying as long a waterline as your budget can afford. Do you agree with this statement?

But now the big question: With exactly what you currently have on your boat, knowing your destination was the South Pacific, what all would you have waited on to increase that waterline if you had a limited budget, knowing you would likely add them a year or two later? Would you forgo the watermaker, genset, radar, new sails, ......? And what might your reasoning be?

While there are other boats we might consider, we are currently looking at 3 boats, and all three come to the peak of our boat budget once minimal work is done to make them seaworthy. Our thought is that we can always upgrade or add later, ....though living with everything now would be nice.

The longest one, the 52'er (42LWL) with the winged keel, needs the rudder re-cored, some sail work, and a lot of interior work where there was some water intrusion. I can do all the work, and once I do, it would definitely add value to the boat far exceeding the sale price, and it would be within our boat budget. It also needs a number of the systems added and/or upgraded - like refrigeration, possibly the watermaker, and a hard dodger with solar - which we can do later.

The second one is 46' (39'LWL), in quite good condition, and at the very top of our budget. It has solar, a wind generator, and a 12v watermaker, but it needs a genset. I love the boat, but can't see living on the hook in the South Pacific without a genset.

The last one is the shortest at 42' (33'LWL), is at the top of our budget, and from what we can tell without a survey and sea trial, it has everything and is ready to sail away. It would work for us, but am thinking that a longer waterline might be nice, especially in the South Pacific seas.

I welcome your thoughts.

I am with you on your anal-ism and also read Dashew's LWL recommendation but think the overly high regard for LWL is short sighted (sorry Dashew). Given the average cruising speed of boats in the 42-52 LOAs we are not talking about a whole bunch...besides your not in a race. Dashew was correct in looking at ratios. Put the data on a spreadsheet and compute them for comparison: SA(100%)/DISP, DISP/LWL, COMFORT, CAPSIZE RISK, L/B, and V HULL...numbers don't lie. These are things you can't change.

Three things on a sailboat are the most important: hull, rigging, and sails. Everything else is secondary. Start from there then consider what is necessary to keep it afloat in all conditions. Get your head out of the salon.

Additionally, although buying a turnkey boat is ideal that usually means everything has been used to some unknown degree and may not be up to another long voyage. An inventory of equipment makes and model numbers plus some Internet research time may shed some light on their worthiness. My boat came with hard and soft dinghies, outboard, davits, washing machine, genset, etc...they were all trashed, sold or given away.

Going to the Pacific calls for all the solar you can afford. I have 4x140W=560W on my boat and rarely read below 80% at sunrise, then back to a FULL reading in the afternoon. A windvane for bluewater is a no brainer...an additional crewmember that doesn't eat, s$%t, or use power. Wind generators are noisy and require maintenance. A genset will add hundreds of pounds to your weight (mine weighed 500 lbs.), use diesel fuel, require maintenance, and will be noisy (your neighbors won't like that). Watermakers are expensive and maintenance prone.

Don't spend all your money on buying the "big" boat (a common mistake)as all boats will require maintenance and upgrades sooner or later. The more LOA you own the more expensive everything else is...start with what you NEED for the voyage you envision and go from there.

You haven't mentioned the make/year of these boats, or engines aboard. How many engine hours? If necessary pay to get an engine survey. I did years ago on a prospective boat and the engine was not recommended and I didn't buy. My present boat came with a brand new engine.

Look at as many boats as you can...then look some more, you can't see enough, every boat is different and tradeoffs are a given. Make note of what you like and don't like about them. Try not to fall in love...until you do.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Kenomac]

Crunchie,

Doing lots of work on a fixer upper never works out well financially on a boat, you’ll never come out ahead. Always let the prior owner (dreamer) waste their hard work, time and money.

Ken
A former contractor, and general all around handy guy like you.

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by MJH

A windvane for bluewater is a no brainer...an additional crewmember that doesn't eat, s$%t, or use power.

I'm with you on all of your points, except 1, and people, please don't flame me; these are my experiences.

I have very little faith in a windvane. Of the boats I've been on, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and when they don't, they either put the boat into chaos, or something breaks. I understand all the benefits, but I'd just rather bring extra crew along, or use the autohelm.

This will be our 5th boat, but the first full sailboat. The first was an IT40. The second was a 1968 33' Chris Craft Cavalier that I completely rebuilt, including the flybridge. Being a tech diver, I wanted something I could easily climb back on deck loaded with 210lbs of dive gear.





We've had 2 puddle jumpers between the Chris and the Trophy 2459 Offshore that we have now.

I have been aboard well over 300 boats since catching the bug in 1992. I was living in Vancouver, BC., and every weekend for 11 years, I would haunt Nancy at Specialty Yachts on Granville Island to see anything new that had come in. I was thankful for her patience with me.

During those years, every spring I would volunteer at the Granville dry dock to help owners with hull maintenance or some minor refits. Most were Hunters, a couple Beneteau and Juneau, and a few others. I learned a lot.

Every year since, I have continued my quest for knowledge such that when the time came, I'd have a pretty good idea of what I'd need and want, and what I can handle. In 2018 alone, I've been on 18 sailboats, two that I sailed on, all between 43' to 65'. If I think it may work, I start a binder and collect as much information as I can on the systems, styles and maintenance issues. One of the first things I ask for is the maintenance log.

I am very hard on yacht brokers. However, I have learned a lot about Raymarine vs Garmin, Spectra vs AquaMarine, Hunter vs Beneteau, etc. yet the more I learn, without the practical, it feels a little like drawing trick plays on the chalkboard. Beyond my limited experience, that's where you people come in.

With the 52'er, I've read the logs from the christening up to 2008. I've requested the rest, but the broker has been slow to respond, yet claiming they are on a laptop.

The other two we are considering, I have the listings and numerous emails that provide extensive systems information.

I haven't mentioned the boat year nor the engine hours because I don't need assistance with those. The information I need is the practical, as well as assistance understanding the conceptual. How does a winged keel perform compared to a full or fin keel; which rigging is best for where we want to go; understanding the basis of Dashew's statement; the list is long.

With that said, I'm thankful for everyone who posts to my threads, whether I agree or not. It's a huge learning curve, but one I am thoroughly enjoying.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ShellBack89

The other issue that hasn't been brought up is cost for marinas and haul outs for the larger boats. I'm guessing you won't be spending too much time in marinas but they'll get you when you do your haul outs and on the hard. Plus as we all know the bigger the boat, the price of maintaining goes up exponentially.

In the S. Pacific, you may have fewer options to stay in marinas no matter what but in the USA, will you want to stay out at anchor? There is a vocal subgroup on the forum that thinks staying in marinas is somehow evil and not cruising...that's fine if they don't want to but a great many enjoy the advantages of being able to step off the boat and be ashore.

We anchor out maybe 10% of the time...usually in expensive areas or to get away from things for a couple days. Generally we aren't cruising to escape society but as a way to see it from a new perspective and marinas make that drastically easier.

A smaller boat is definitely cheaper in terms of marinas and many other costs. Also, some of the features you would demand if mostly staying at anchor are nice but not critical if you mostly stay in marinas. Example: We are OK with a head that does double duty as a shower stall because we can usually use the marina showers. If we were anchored out constantly, we would want a separate shower stall with the water tanks to feed it for a few weeks at a time....which of course translates to a larger boat with associated expenses.

This brings up another thought. Think about your daily run of the mill tasks (cooking, bathing, sleeping, etc...) now imagine accomplishing all those tasks on each prospective boat. Something you might be willing to live with on a once a year one week trip, can become a deal killer if you had to do it daily.