Promise me these stains will come out?

[pbnelson]

So, newbie sailor here. Finally got our "new" 1969 Cal-34 launched (Lake City, MN) this week, and tonight got the mainsail hoisted. Horror of horrors, it looks like something from a post-apocalyptic zombie flick. I had the boat surveyed before buying, but never saw the sails with my own eyes, so I have no idea if it looked like this when I bought it last fall. In any case, my wife is horrified, and it really ruins the whole experience for her.

I can't even imagine what those stains are - there wasn't anything on the outside of the sail bag, so my first guess is mold? But there's a weird smell, almost oily.

The plan is to soak it overnight in a big 6' cast iron bathtub in an oxi-clean solution. Then take it out into the yard, lay it on a huge tarp, and set to work with brush and a hose.

Will that work? Anyone ever seen stains like that and know what they are?

[GordMay]

Greetings and belated welcome aboard the CF, pbnelson.


Quick and Safe Sail Cleaning
Oxiclean and dirt cheap DIY formula match specialty cleaners.
➥ https://www.practical-sailor.com/boa...-sail-cleaning


1. Place a clean, plastic, black or dark-colored 40 gallon garbage can, or better yet, a cast iron bathtub, where it will receive full sunlight, to keep the water warm.
2. Fill the container with water (soft and warm but not hot).
2. Add 1 cup of Oxyclean liquid stain remover (to each ±10 gal water), and mix well.
Do not add bleach or other harsh cleaners, which can damage some sail fabrics, bolt ropes, and thread.
3. Completely submerge, one sail at a time, in the water, and let it soak for at least 24 hours.
You don’t need to agitate it. If some of the sail floats up out of the water, just turn the sail in the water, from time to time, to be sure everything gets plenty of time to soak.
4. After (at least) 24 hours, remove the sail, and spread it out flat, on a clean, smooth surface.
A deck, made with composite planks works, great if you have access to one.
If your sail is bigger than your work surface, work on a small section at a time.
5. While it’s still wet with the soapy water, lightly scrub the sail all over, with a soft brush, paying extra attention to the seams, batten pockets, and stains.
6. Thoroughly rinse with clean water (soft if possible).
7. Hang the sail to dry. You can drape it over outdoor furniture, hang it from a flagpole, or whatever you may have, so long as it keeps the sail off the ground, and lets air circulate around the fabric, until it dries.
If you don’t have someplace at home to do this, take the sail to your sailboat on a windless day, and hoist it to dry, while you do other things. Just be sure you don’t store the sail while it’s still damp, or mildew can set in (again).
8. Store it loosely, in a well ventilated space, for at least several days, to be sure all the moisture trapped between the layers of material, in the corner patches, has evaporated.

[JPA Cate]

From the cut of the sail, I'd say it is made from dacron. The stain color is rusty.

If your stains don't go away with your treatment, the next step is to treat the rusty area with a mild oxalic acid solution. (You can usually find oxalic acid crystals being sold as concrete cleaner, for driveways). Do a test spot. Plan to hose it off, liberally, right away whether or not it removes the rust color. I'd probably try by the tack, as the cloth is reinforced there. If it does work, a little, you can do repeated applications. You can just brush (cheap bristle brush) or spray it on (with a garden sprayer). It will need flushing off after, and you can also use a solution of baking soda and water to neutralize the acid first, if you want. The idea is to not to damage the dacron, which is merely polyester. It is the very devil to get oil-borne stains out of, and so regular detergent, or waterless hand cleaner is one thing to try. But if you think (since you can see it and I can only guess) it was from rust, bearing in mind that those look like water-borne stains from their splashy-ness in appearance, I'm pretty sure the oxalic acid solution will work. I would start with a strength about 1/4 what they recommend for driveways, then make it stronger. If it doesn't work by the time you get to full strength, then it is probably not the right thing.

What you are dealing with right now is (as far as you know) merely cosmetic damage. You can test the fabric for its condition using the pencil test. Take a sharpened #2 pencil and try to drive it by hand through the cloth. If it penetrates, the cloth is worn out (UV damaged), and the sail will need to be replaced. If not, then I'd suggest living with the ugliness till it does need replacing, if you are unable to remove the stains. Mainsails are not inexpensive.

Ann

PS. Sorry I can't guarantee you'll be able to get the stains out. It will take trying different things, and knowing for sure what the stain is from will help. I agree it looks yucky, but if its shape is good and it passes the pencil test, it depends on the pocket book whether you should replace it. Maybe get your good lady wife to phone around and learn about the cost of new mainsails for your boat.

[Oeanda]

You can try CLR on a section and see if that works. CLR kinda fills the same place that oxalic acid does, though I haven’t figured out if there are useful differences between the two, other than price sometimes. They both work well for rust type stains.

You can also make a DIY version of CLR if you need lots- which you will if it works. https://h2odoctors.com/do-it-yourself-clr/

If all else failed I might think about trying to dye or colour the sail. I know of no way to dye Dacron. But it does somehow manage to get rust stained, A complete, or somewhat mottled, cream or rust-coloured sail might actually look quite nice, to my taste.

Another last ditch idea is to just leave it for now. The sun might bleach it out. You might think of new ideas in the meantime.

[GordMay]

The Practical Sailor article, “Quick and Safe Sail Cleaning” discusses rust stains, and acids, in addition to mildew etc. It’s worth a read.
➥ https://www.practical-sailor.com/boa...-sail-cleaning

[thinwater]

Lots of good advice. Two things:

• To figure out what the stains are, test small areas first.
• Oxiclean is the LAST step, after an overall cleaning. You never use a bleaching agent until the dirt is removed, along with any rust remnants. Bleaching agents are less effective on a dirty sail and can "set" certain stains, like blood and rust.

This is cleaning 101.Clean it in the wrong order and it won't come clean.


The pattern makes it look like a bird built a nest in it while was furled, or something like that. I don't think it is rust. I would start with an overall light cleaning, then a local area soak (just keep it wet) with an enzymatic stain remover, as you would for blood, followed by a scrub, and then Oxiclean as you described.

[pbnelson]

Thanks, everyone, for the tips. It's too late to do the Oxi-clean last, as I've already commenced the plan and let it soak overnight in 3 cups (6 capfuls) of liquid Oxi-clean to 50 gallons of water. It turned from blue (Oxi dye colored) to brown within minutes, and after 9 hours the water was like mud. I drained it, refilled the tub, and even the refill is still very soapy. Clearly some serious rinsing-out is required. I'll have it hoisted early this afternoon and post more pictures then. Here's the status so far:



After one hour



After nine hours

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The pattern makes it look like a bird built a nest in it while was furled, or something like that. I don't think it is rust. I would start with an overall light cleaning, then a local area soak (just keep it wet) with an enzymatic stain remover, as you would for blood, followed by a scrub, and then Oxiclean as you described.

+1. ^^^^

Would have started the tub soaking in plain water since it looked like it was mud. (rinse well and assess) After removing most/some of the dirt, would have added some cold water delicate wash soap (Woolite, etc.) that has a neutral pH to remove algae and more dirt. (rinse well and assess). If needed a final hit w/oxiclean.

For rust, oxalic acid on the spot or lemon juice in the sun to lighten the stain.

Soaking the sail takes longer with milder detergents, but will maintain the integrity of the sail better.

In an old sail that has been left out in the elements (even under a cover), much of the stiffness will be gone and become baggy. While a different topic, sails eventually do need to be replaced for better sailing performance. Replacing the main will be putting new life in the boat, analogous to putting in a new motor in an old car.

[pbnelson]

Current status: rinsed and drying. All the zombie apocalypse stains have dispersed, leaving it quite acceptable - indeed quite lovely, better than expected. The dear wife can now sail without embarrassment. Marriage saved.



rinsing



drying

[Bill O]

It looks much better now.
Any idea when those sails were made? Looking at the batten pockets, it's probably fairly old.

Whenever you decide you will replace any sails, would wait until a fall boat show where you will get the best price for a new sail.

[pbnelson]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Any idea when those sails were made? Looking at the batten pockets, it's probably fairly old.

I have an undated receipt from a sailmaker for adding reefing cringles, so it's possible that the sail was original to the 1969 boat? At the very least, when the sail was made they intended to use the original roller boom for reefing, and I understand those went completely out of fashion by the 70's.

As for the age, your guess is going to be better than mine, in all honesty.

[pbnelson]

Success! For anyone following this thread, here are the before/after shots. The 22kn gusts made me shy of hoisting it all the way, but you can get the idea. Whatever that mess was made of, it sure responded well to the Oxi-clean overnight soaking.


...... Before ....... ......... After .......

[grantmc]

I am so relieved, I was wondering where to hide until the zombie apocalypse is over.
Trampolines are great for laying out sails to dry. I wash my sails every couple of years along with all the ropes. The ropes I just chuck in the washing machine.

But glad it worked for you OP.