Prospects for oceanic internet access in a year or two?

[pjShap]

SpaceX Starlink user provides first impressions and test results, including wilderness use.

https://arstechnica.com/information-...-gets-120mbps/

[aisleorwindow]

Amazon also has Project Kuiper which looks pretty promising as well. Realistically, probably several years from being useable for cruisers, but quite promising:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_Systems

[B23iL23]

Wikipedia is (way) out of date.

Wouldn't hold my breath for Kuiper. It was supposed to have > 3000 sats in place by end of 2019 but it currently has none and there are no current firm plans in place for a launch. They have until 2026 to get 3,200 in place or they lose their FCC license.

They will probably launch on the New Glenn rocket but this is still in design stage and will be early/mid 2022 before it is even tested, let alone carry anything.

Don't think we will see anything from them before 2024/2025 at the earliest.

Originally Posted by aisleorwindow

Amazon also has Project Kuiper which looks pretty promising as well. Realistically, probably several years from being useable for cruisers, but quite promising:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_Systems

[websailr]

I've been hearing about the Iridium GO that allows two way internet pole to pole, including weather maps. The price I recall from a year ago was US$1000. Anybody have experience with this kit? Cheers, Orlando

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Culwatty

I have been talking with a new company worldwide roaming sim cards. Data plans etc, I don't have figures yet but it looks very promising and would save having to buy a local sim at each new port (figuratively speaking)

How much are most cruuisers paying on payg for data and how much data?

N. America is a black hole for the cash in your wallet and a huge pain to get a SIM and get it set up.

Most other countries are dirt cheap by comparison and if it takes more than 15min to get a new SIM installed something is wrong.

Last year in Italy, I thought the girl at the kiosk didn't have very good english skills. We went back and forth a few times until she wrote out 50GB for $25...I was sure she meant 15GB, which I would have been fine with anyway.

[ShipOfFools]

At present time, how far offshore can you get wireless service and internet?

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by ShipOfFools

At present time, how far offshore can you get wireless service and internet?

It's basically line-of-sight. So typically only a few miles at best (depending on the height of the shore-based antenna).

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by websailr

I've been hearing about the Iridium GO that allows two way internet pole to pole, including weather maps. The price I recall from a year ago was US$1000. Anybody have experience with this kit? Cheers, Orlando

GO is great for some things, but the speeds are incredibly slow, it maxes out at 2.4kbps. Yes, that is kilo bits per second. It would take hours to load even a simple modern web page, and don’t even think about streaming or Zoom calls. Starlink is already delivering 50-150mbps, plenty fast enough for multiple simultaneous streams, video conference calls, interactive gaming, and lots more.

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you can switch it on and off, I'm a buyer at that pricing. When does it become operational?

Dockhead, you've pointed to a problem with the StarLink system. The current user terminals (UTs) draw about 150W, or close to 300Ah/day at 12v. That might be OK for occasional use, but most cruising boats won't want to leave it on all the time. Hopefully these consumption figures will get better, but the beams are pumping significant RF energy, & it's not very efficient to make that currently.

At present, when you sign up, you tell them where you are & they put a beam on that "cell" 24x7. In theory, if you move, the system will track you & put a beam in the next cell as you move. But that sounds a bit dodgy to me, & requires that you keep the UT on all the time that you're moving, when we all use more power anyway from autopilots, instruments, etc.

At present, there's no low-bandwidth back-channel to say "I'm here & I need service." Everything has to be setup in advance. Hopefully, this will be addressed in the future. Perhaps the UT will get enough orbital data to be able to put a beam on a bird even after a few days, but that also sounds iffy.

The phased array antennas have aiming motors, but they're much too slow for a boat, & aren't really needed anyway, since the electronically steered beam can be re-aimed in 1ms, which is plenty fast enough. But this requires that the UT (or antenna) have high-speed gyros & such to compensate for a boat's motion while underway, & it's unclear if the current UTs have this instrumentation (I would guess they don't).

Musk has promised service to ships, planes (which can experience serious G forces) & trucks. He hasn't specifically mentioned sailboats that I've heard, but I'm still hoping we can ride on the coat-tails of other mobile users, & operation in bouncy seas may not be available initially.

The current Beta is limited to places close to where they have ground stations. The first 700-ish birds didn't have inter-bird laser coms, but they do now, & they're already deorbiting some of the 1st gen birds that don't. Once they get a good mesh of birds up, they won't need as many ground stations.

[B23iL23]

Getting some real world power usage and it's around 118 watts (120VAC). Better than 150 but could do with trimming it down a little more.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by dannc

From, https://advanced-television.com/2020...-on-its-ships/

Thanks, Dan.


Imho there is nothing there that says offshore will be serviced. To me the service would be worth my buck if it covers all ocean areas at least within the 50N-50S belt.


Space-X drone ships are used inshore Florida waters and bay of Mexico I think. And a 'near-global' coverage may mean just that - great coverage over land and marginal over oceans. See present Globalstar (Spot, etc.) shortcomings.


barnakiel

[h20man]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Dockhead, you've pointed to a problem with the StarLink system. The current user terminals (UTs) draw about 150W, or close to 300Ah/day at 12v. That might be OK for occasional use, but most cruising boats won't want to leave it on all the time. Hopefully these consumption figures will get better, but the beams are pumping significant RF energy, & it's not very efficient to make that currently.

At present, when you sign up, you tell them where you are & they put a beam on that "cell" 24x7. In theory, if you move, the system will track you & put a beam in the next cell as you move. But that sounds a bit dodgy to me, & requires that you keep the UT on all the time that you're moving, when we all use more power anyway from autopilots, instruments, etc.

At present, there's no low-bandwidth back-channel to say "I'm here & I need service." Everything has to be setup in advance. Hopefully, this will be addressed in the future. Perhaps the UT will get enough orbital data to be able to put a beam on a bird even after a few days, but that also sounds iffy.

The phased array antennas have aiming motors, but they're much too slow for a boat, & aren't really needed anyway, since the electronically steered beam can be re-aimed in 1ms, which is plenty fast enough. But this requires that the UT (or antenna) have high-speed gyros & such to compensate for a boat's motion while underway, & it's unclear if the current UTs have this instrumentation (I would guess they don't).

Musk has promised service to ships, planes (which can experience serious G forces) & trucks. He hasn't specifically mentioned sailboats that I've heard, but I'm still hoping we can ride on the coat-tails of other mobile users, & operation in bouncy seas may not be available initially.

The current Beta is limited to places close to where they have ground stations. The first 700-ish birds didn't have inter-bird laser coms, but they do now, & they're already deorbiting some of the 1st gen birds that don't. Once they get a good mesh of birds up, they won't need as many ground stations.

Hold on here.. .Starlink has been trialed by the military beaming connectivity at a slow 610 megabits per-second.(more tests to follow) .
That speed means you would have to wait a less then a minute for a movie to download.



Starlink is going to be a game changer. Yes it costs power... but what doesn't? And with new battery systems and Solar.... this is not going to be a problem.


at a cost of $99/month with a $500 set up cost for the terminal and router this is a LOT of money... compared to a big city internet cost. But in the aviation/marine sector this is NOTHING! not even a boat buck for the equipment and a boat buck for a years worth of connectivity...

[dannc]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Thanks, Dan.

Imho there is nothing there that says offshore will be serviced. To me the service would be worth my buck if it covers all ocean areas at least within the 50N-50S belt.

Space-X drone ships are used inshore Florida waters and bay of Mexico I think. And a 'near-global' coverage may mean just that - great coverage over land and marginal over oceans. See present Globalstar (Spot, etc.) shortcomings.

barnakiel

There has been some discussion if StarLink will work on vessels because of pitching and rolling. Given that StarLink's ships will work with StarLink, that pitching and rolling concern should be a non issue.


I don't see why StarLink will not have global coverage, including oceans. StarLink is going to have around 1,000 satellites by the end of 2020, and if I remember correctly, wants to put up 42,000. Eventually. The current rocket is putting 60 satellites into orbit and they are launching a couple rockets a month for the rest of the year. They have another rocket under development that will put 400 satellites into orbit with each launch.


GlobalStar has a few dozen satellites....


StarLink satellites can talk to each other with lasers so that a satellite over the ocean can talk to other satellites to get the transmission to a ground station.



The only negative I have read regarding coverage, ocean or land, is the higher latitudes.


Later,
Dan

[Emmalina]

Sounds more like semi retirement to me !

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by dannc

...
StarLink satellites can talk to each other with lasers so that a satellite over the ocean can talk to other satellites to get the transmission to a ground station.

That's the plan, but not yet the reality. There is currently no inter-satellite usable (testing is in the works) connection in the Starlink system. Until there is, you and and a ground station have to be in view of the same satellite.

In a recent webcast with Via Satellite, Jonathan Hofeller, SpaceX’s vice president of Starlink and Commercial Sales said SpaceX was “aggressively” targeting inter-satellite links.

“We have to make sure it’s cost effective in order to provide it and implement into the constellation. That’s something we are attacking internally and aggressively and it’s something that we know will greatly enhance the system, both for consumers and enterprise customers, and our government customers as well,” Hofeller said in July.