Question re hull designs that reduce risk of fouled props, keels or rudder

[a64pilot]

I used to worry about them cause until you have dove a boat in three ft or larger waves to clear a line, you won't appreciate the difficulty. I did on a powerboat long ago, The wave action will nearly beat you to death on the bottom of the boat.
Anyway I have simply lost count of how many times I've suddenly seen a float appear at night right behind the boat in the straights of Fl at night, full keel and a "Lobster strap" apparently make me nearly immune to lines.
Now that I have made that statement, I'm doomed

[sandy stone]

I'm actually a little more worried about getting a crab trap line caught between the top of my spade rudder and the hull, enough so that I installed a pin made from a 5/16 bolt in front of the gap. I think it's done its job a few times already.

[Jim Cate]

Thanks Jim, I appreciate your comments. Most of my sailing has involved coastal passages and I see it would be less of an problem when you cross oceans.

G'Day Coffsguy,

Just to set the story straight, while we have crossed our share of seas, oceans etc, we've done a lot of trips up and down the east coast of Oz. For instance, this is our 15th summer in Tasmania, and each of those trips involved coastal passages from somewhere in Qld and then back north.

If you are happy with the performance of a long keel attached rudder hull shape, then by al means you should have one. If not, I think a reasonable fin keel is not that big a hit to the line snag probabilities. Bulbs that project forward from the fin... well, not such a good plan IMO!

For the long distance cruisrer, the ability to use a slipway without drama is important. Bulb type keels make this a difficult prospect, usually involving a diver to set chocks under the keel. We enjoy the fact that our fin keel allows the boat to balance perfectly on a slip... doesn't even need fore and aft braces... so it is possible with a conservative fin.

For the cruiser, there are a lot of factors that get weighed in hull type selection. IMO, nostalgia for traditional types is a poor driver for this choice, and a reasoned look at various configurations is warranted. Lots of room for discussion, but in the end, practicality should rule!

Jim

[jpendoley]

My perspective: I sail the coast of Maine every year, often for several weeks at a time. I used to do it in my old Pearson Vanguard with full keel and attached rudder-never snagged a pot and don't bother to try to avoid them. Some thoroughfares have hundreds and hundreds of pots. I would sail through those pot fields at night and never had a problem.

Last year I acquired a Pearson 365 with a fin, exposed prop and rudder on a skeg. I hung up for the first time in twenty years on my second day out. Jumping in 62 degree water in a three foot chop four miles off shore is not a trivial exercise for this fifty-six year old.

I'm not going back to the Vanguard because, in balance, I like the increased space, tankage, speed and all-but I am looking for a work around-and yes I have a line cutter. Just my experience.
Jim

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Pot entanglement does happen, and a good set of line cutters on the shaft help a lot. But it is of such a low practical concern I wouldn't stress it. Just keep a sharp knife and a dive mask and fins handy in case.

While I've jumped in and cut away a line from the prop in Hawaii, I would prefer to not do that up here in the Pacific Northwest. The water temperature is a lot colder here! I'm thinking about getting a dry suit.

[barnakiel]

Full keel and prop in the aperture seems to work quite clean though. You want the ballast stub to overlap the bottom gap at the rudder. The line gets pushed under the boat, then rolls away smooth behind the boat.

b.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

While I've jumped in and cut away a line from the prop in Hawaii, I would prefer to not do that up here in the Pacific Northwest. The water temperature is a lot colder here! I'm thinking about getting a dry suit.

Look real hard at a Pinnacle dry ice suit then, I cave dive with one and it's much, much better than a bag suit and it's not one of the expensive ones either

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Look real hard at a Pinnacle dry ice suit then, I cave dive with one and it's much, much better than a bag suit and it's not one of the expensive ones either

Thanks. Would that be the "Black Ice" suit from Pinnacle?

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

While I've jumped in and cut away a line from the prop in Hawaii, I would prefer to not do that up here in the Pacific Northwest. The water temperature is a lot colder here! I'm thinking about getting a dry suit.

Managed to get the Walker Log Line wrapped around the prop off Monterey, CA in January. 50 degree water is no fun. Lost the feeling in my hands within minutes so had to work visually to keep from slicing my hands off. Something that's really stimulating about sticking your head in frigid water. Probably took me no more than 15 minutes to clear the line but hours to warm up again. Never been so cold in my life. Doubt that survival suit would work to do anything much below the water line. Too much buoyancy to get down to where you need to work.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

IMO, nostalgia for traditional types is a poor driver for this choice, and a reasoned look at various configurations is warranted. Lots of room for discussion, but in the end, practicality should rule!

Jim

Argh! I can see through your poorly camouflaged snub at the graceful underwater curves and snag-free smoothness of the classics!
Of course you are perhaps, maybe, correct... in some small way...

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Thanks. Would that be the "Black Ice" suit from Pinnacle?

It would, old age

[a64pilot]

For what isn't worth, I would think that the fish trap that " got " the Leopard 48 in another thread, I believe my boat would have sailed right over the thing, maybe got caught in the middle who knows, but I don't think it would we've incurred any damage

[Pelagic]

We all have our priorities but the reality is that there are a lot of unmarked, unlit, UFO's floating out there to smash into

The Vendee Globe illustrated that!

Also, in the majority of the cruising world, there are NO Coast Guard support nearby.

For that reason, my number one priority when cruising poorly charted areas in W Pacific, is crash survivability be it a floating fish aggregate or a coral reef.

My long heavy keel, collision bulkhead, skeg protected rudder and protected prop with minimal shaft exposure meets that brief.

Built of Corten Steel and mostly double skinned below the waterline (originally skinned cooled)...I feel pretty good about surviving most collisions

I will sacrifice light wind speed and turn on the engine when needed for that piece of mind.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

One reason we decided on the daggerboard, outboard motor, kick-up rudder combination. And it's been tested a couple of times, on crab pots.

That's what we used doing the great loop and it was basically a non-issue. A few times, the boards and/or rudder hit them but they slipped off. Only once did the rudder kick up. If the outboard had caught one, I can raise the motor and address the issue from on deck.

Keep in mind with the old full keel designs, you are making a huge trade off for everyday maneuverability for the rare event of catching a pot. How many docks will you ram because of the poor maneuverability in exchange for the rare event of catching a pot.

[Don C L]

[QUOTE=valhalla360;2309819
Keep in mind with the old full keel designs, you are making a huge trade off for everyday maneuverability for the rare event of catching a pot. How many docks will you ram because of the poor maneuverability in exchange for the rare event of catching a pot.[/QUOTE]

Well .... the long keels aren't quite ALL that bad.... have a look at mine... I can zip around the anchorage or harbor pretty well without banging too many people! It's no fin keel and spade rudder but it's no dog either!