Rank the different boat brands

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, is that ranking top down or bottom up? Enquiring minds want to know!



And what about all the other marques?



Jim

Regarding order, I feel the list speaks for itself.

Regarding brands. Other brands did not make the list, this as either because they were not good enough or because I was being lazy with my list. Again, I feel the list speaks for itself.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

I’m hoping this doesn’t come across as too dumb of a question, but I’m looking for some help in understanding boat brands/manufacturers.


Current or previous?

I understand there are too many to cover them all. I understand it will be very subjective. I understand everyone has different sailing goals and experience. Ok - with the disclaimer out of the way - who wants to sort the different boat manufacturers into categories?

I find the simplest categories are "afford/can't afford"

Maybe relating to cars would be helpful.

Again, needs a vintage. I'm getting around in a 1980's boat that is based on a late 1960's design, so I guess I am driving the equivalent of an old Land Rover.

The Kia/Hyundai tier: boats that are super cheap, good for beginners, and you won’t lose too much sleep if it sinks due to the cost (no offense to Kia owners, I’m sure they’re great cars).

I suspect this would limit you to smaller boats, once they get to a certain size the economics dictate that the manufacturer at least TRIES to sell them as a Mercedes, though from the reading here, many are built more like a Ford Pinto

Honda Accord/Toyota Camry tier: solid boats, no bells or whistles, won’t turn any heads in the marina, but will get the job done and probably hold their resale value - based on my 3 months of hanging out around this forum, I’d guess Catalina’s would go here.

After hanging around this forum I would have assumed you'd know better than to start labeling ANY boat, even if you owned a dozen of the things.

Lexus tier: higher end of boats that average people can afford

I can't think of a parallel for a Lexus because I cannot think of an equivalent for "expensive Toyota".

Feel free to add higher tiers if you’re bored, but they’re out of my range. I want to start looking at boats and would love a cheat sheet to help me quickly sort the brands.

Edit: looking at monohulls, but not opposed to multis

Like most of us, your cheat sheet should start with a budget, then go on to a duty-cycle, followed by a rough size. THEN you'll have a list of boats, boat ages, boat conditions and, oh, yeah, boat manufacturers, to consider. Before that, it's all pretty pointless trying to build a list. For instance, I can think of many excellent designers and builders who I first considered but I would no longer consider, despite thinking or knowing they are great, because the boats those guys build are not what I need.

I applaud your lateral thinking, but I really don't think any list will help or make sense yet.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

I’m 0 for 2 tonight. That one was meant to be sarcastic. Guess I’m not as smart or funny as my kids think.

Don't feel bad.

You were not being sarcastic, you were being IRONIC.

And, as an Aussie, I can tell you from comprehensive experience, irony rarely breaks through here.

I actually thought it was a good original question, sometimes we have to ask what seems to be a silly question to get ourselves on the right track.

(And If I were to delete every thread I'd started where I was slapping myself in the forehead after three or four responses I'd come across as a lurker, not a poster.)

Matt

[AKA-None]

Obviously a c&c is the best boat :-)

[GILow]

Originally Posted by JC Reefer

Salt to Sea, don’t let these old people give you such a hard time. There is a defined hierarchy within boat builders.

Beneteau, Catalina, Macgregor, hunter [emoji6]

Wrong place, I think you wanted the new joke thread.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Obviously a c&c is the best boat :-)

Well, that was easier than I expected.

[robinco]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

I’m hoping this doesn’t come across as too dumb of a question, but I’m looking for some help in understanding boat brands/manufacturers.

I understand there are too many to cover them all. I understand it will be very subjective. I understand everyone has different sailing goals and experience. Ok - with the disclaimer out of the way - who wants to sort the different boat manufacturers into categories?

Maybe relating to cars would be helpful.

The Kia/Hyundai tier: boats that are super cheap, good for beginners, and you won’t lose too much sleep if it sinks due to the cost (no offense to Kia owners, I’m sure they’re great cars).

Honda Accord/Toyota Camry tier: solid boats, no bells or whistles, won’t turn any heads in the marina, but will get the job done and probably hold their resale value - based on my 3 months of hanging out around this forum, I’d guess Catalina’s would go here.

Lexus tier: higher end of boats that average people can afford

Feel free to add higher tiers if you’re bored, but they’re out of my range. I want to start looking at boats and would love a cheat sheet to help me quickly sort the brands.

Edit: looking at monohulls, but not opposed to multis

Once I was a statistical analyst (in a previous life as well as a govt weather forecaster FWIW) and got interested in a somewhat similar question to yours.
I assumed that Brokers/Owners’ asking prices on Yachtworld website had some relationship with their perceived values of their monohulls.
So I tried disentangling the effects on asking price for about 1600 makes/models of used boats from other effects including year of launching, length of boat, and place from which being sold. But excludes other relevant stuff such as engine size and hours and so on.
Copy of results of that 2007 exercise is attached. Hope you can read it Ok. All prices are given as deviations from a base price of $153US.
The list down the LHS I sometimes use a starting point for quality of the boat.
My own boat is actually not on that list.

[robinco]

mmm...
Obviously that table of mine didn't post very readably
Too bad about that.
But anyway, if the concept and resulting numbers are of any interest, please post back and I'll see about giving a clearer version.

[Salt to Sea]

Originally Posted by robinco

mmm...
Obviously that table of mine didn't post very readably
Too bad about that.
But anyway, if the concept and resulting numbers are of any interest, please post back and I'll see about giving a clearer version.

I downloaded the image and it works great. So, base price is $153k and if I look at the Hunters they’re -$52k, meaning the average cost of a Hunter at that time was $101k? Add or subtract for length and age?

Just the list of manufacturers with average price is helpful. Many of the names I see more often are on the lower end. I guess that makes sense, this is very cool. Thanks for sharing.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

I’m trying to figure it all out and was hoping this would help me narrow my daydreaming searches some.

I’ll probably be looking for a 20-30’ (I know that’s a huge range) used boat for under $10k and maybe even under $5k. I bought a little 12’ boat recently and learned it’s way too small. Gonna upgrade to something bigger next summer but really just at the beginning stages. I didn’t mean for this to turn into a thread to help me decide exactly what I need, as I have too much to learn before getting there.

There are a number of 20-25’ boats in my area for under $10k. I could drive to So Cal for a great deal too (10 hrs to L.A.).

I’m not going to be looking for my dream boat, rather a good learning boat that my family and I can enjoy while beating it up on the lakes around here.

Rather than spinning your wheels trying to figure out which boat is the best brand (a fool's errand that many of us have already tried), the better place to spend your time is on refining your needs and finding the best boat for you right now.

What you've written in this post is a decent start. You can also learn quite a bit about sailing from the boat you already have.

But do start with budget and needs, and work from there. Then find a boat that matches the profile of how you'll actually use it in the near future.

In the mean time, there is no harm in looking at bunch of ocean-crossing boats on the internet, other than it being a time sink.

Once you have a boat, you'll probably realize that the boat you like the most is the one you've got. Now I realize that you have a boat, and want a bigger one. Just like everyone else...

[jrau18]

Robinco: interesting list. You could redo that list and it could become a thread into itself.


Salt and sea: if your question was to help you pick a boat to buy, I'd suggest sharing more info about your desired sailing near future, your experience and background, location, etc. You plan to trailer this boat?

If your experience is on a 12 footer and it is too small for what you want to do, that doesnt necessarily imply that a 30 footer is right for you. There is a massive difference between 12 feet and 30.

You brought up that maybe your car analogy wasnt quite apt. I agree, but it's even less apt than you might realize at this point. Your list cant really be just about subjective quality. With road vehicles, you dont just have yugo versus civic versus lexus versus Aston martin. You also have pickup trucks, semi trucks, motorcycles, etc, and you have varying levels of quality in each category. Comparing within categories makes some sense, but between categories not so much.

So maybe tell us more about your goals etc. If you were on a road vehicle forum, you might tell them you have a family of four, you like to do donuts in parking lots, and camping on bumpy dirt roads is your passion. Now people know to recommend you specific full size pickup trucks.

If you're looking for something you can store in your 8 foot wide side yard, can day sail in lakes in Utah with up to 4 people and anchor out for lunch, that is a different set of boats than if your goal is to keep the boat in the water in L.A. while you prepare it to circumnavigate.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by robinco

mmm...
Obviously that table of mine didn't post very readably
Too bad about that.
But anyway, if the concept and resulting numbers are of any interest, please post back and I'll see about giving a clearer version.

That's a really interesting list. Naturally, asking price isn't the ideal starting point but it's one for which you have a lot of data easily. I can certainly concur with your data showing how high asking prices are in NZ!

I'd imagine that list might be somewhat different now, twelve years later. Did it take you forever to make it or did you create software to do it for you?

[robinco]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

That's a really interesting list. Naturally, asking price isn't the ideal starting point but it's one for which you have a lot of data easily. I can certainly concur with your data showing how high asking prices are in NZ!

I'd imagine that list might be somewhat different now, twelve years later. Did it take you forever to make it or did you create software to do it for you?

The calculation used a statistical model like
Price = make/model component + length component + age component + country component

It's what some writers seem to call a factorial regression model, with the various components obtained from inverting a 250 by 250 (or so) matrix along with various multiplications, additions, etc. Not feasible to calculate manually, could take years, so I wrote software for it.

The actual laptop calculation was quick, maybe less than 10 seconds, although collecting and organising the Yachtworld data took rather longer, as did devising and writing the software.

I have thought about updating it but lack the motivation. These days I much prefer to spend time sailing and associated outdoors stuff, have got boats at Gulf Harbour and Waikawa, rather than long poring over numbers on a computer. Life is too good to waste.

Most of the boats when advertised for sale in New Zealand include about 20 percent tax component on the price, so it is a pretty expensive place to buy yachts.

Somewhat similar, but opinion based, threads have occurred before, like
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ity-30396.html and similar.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

I’m trying to figure it all out and was hoping this would help me narrow my daydreaming searches some.

I’ll probably be looking for a 20-30’ (I know that’s a huge range) used boat for under $10k and maybe even under $5k. I bought a little 12’ boat recently and learned it’s way too small. Gonna upgrade to something bigger next summer but really just at the beginning stages. I didn’t mean for this to turn into a thread to help me decide exactly what I need, as I have too much to learn before getting there.

There are a number of 20-25’ boats in my area for under $10k. I could drive to So Cal for a great deal too (10 hrs to L.A.).

I’m not going to be looking for my dream boat, rather a good learning boat that my family and I can enjoy while beating it up on the lakes around here.

Here's a list of good boats between 20'-32' many in your price range plus advice for the first time buyer.

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html

Most of these boats will cross oceans though if properly prepared. Most any boat will do for small lake sailing. I learned on a Hobie 16 and a sailing dinghy on small lakes

[MicHughV]

my first response may have been a bit harsh....

a good friend of mine circumnavigated in a 21' wood sloop, using a truck inner tube lashed to his foredeck as a liferaft.

Webb Chiles has done it several times in craft that defy description.

Others have also done it in vessels most people would consider " inadequate"

It takes nuts of steel, a good dose of luck, and be prepared to stay very wet.

God looks after drunks, fools and sailors, so I have been covered under all 3 requirements in my voyaging.

Like Sailorboy1 sez...find the right boat for YOU !!!