Registration vs License (CND)

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Correct me if this is no longer true, but registered vessels had a BLUE BOOK, which really was just a fancy folder which contained the registration paper. Very official looking. I bought a boat where the blue book had been lost, and that story would be a whole nother thread. The blue book is what you want to show at the border.

Still called a Blue Book but nowhere as fancy as before. I currently own a registered boat and my first registered boat was purchased in 1971.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hamburking

However, in the past they have turned over their data to CRA to collect sales tax on the purchase price of your boat. I was contacted 2 or 3 years after the boat purchase to submit sales taxes owing, based on the info I had supplied when transferring the license. At 13% (in Ontario) this is not a trivial amount. However, I've "heard" that so many people were in non-compliance, that "maybe" they have stopped doing that. They currently state that their goal is to have up to date info for search and rescue...you know, in case they find your boat adrift. If any CF readers have more info on that, I would like to hear it...13% is a going to be thousands of dollars when buying a decent boat. I've never bought a boat through a broker, but assume they collect and remit the sales tax on your behalf...again, any CF readers have first hand info on this?

My understanding is that all boat sales (new or used) are subject to the HST or PST/GST (depending on which province the transaction is taking place). For a private sale you were (are?) supposed to send in the license transfer, along with the bill of sale. A tax bill is then issued on the sale amount. I have it on good authority () that the system didn't always work. Despite some people following all the rules, some people report that no tax bill was ever received. I don’t know how the current system is working, but I doubt that they’ve stopped collecting sales taxes on used boat sales.

I imported my current boat from the USA, so paid all the taxes as soon as I hit the border. I then licensed this boat (getting my new “ON” number) by showing proof of tax payment.

I’m unaware of brokers managing the tax responsibly for buyers. I kinda doubt that most would since they are usually working for the seller, and it is the buyer’s responsibility. But if you have a buyer’s broker, or probably on high-end sales, this might happen.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Actually the annual radio station license is super easy and convenient. They even let you pay online now. It's really easy and (gasp!) efficient! Heck I even got my MMSI this year. It was just an emailed form and 4 days later I had my number emaile to me at no charge!

Great! I was just about to mail in my cheque. I'll check that out right now!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by hamburking

The old system had letters and numbers, which identified your home port...for example anything that started with 50E was from Toronto. But around 10 years ago (?) they changed the whole thing, and numbers now ALL start with ON...which stands for Official Number (NOT Ontario). My ON was ON80101 which seems much shorter than everyone else's ON.

All of this is incorrect. ....................

The old system (your 50E example) does not identify your homeport, simply the location of the registry office where first licensed. Many of these offices were no where near water. The "50" designates the town in this case "Toronto" and the "E" in this case "Ontario" designates the province.

"ON" on a licensed boat does NOT stand for Official number. The new license system implemented in 2006 simply uses the two letter provincial designation of the province where first licensed i.e. "QC" is the prefix for boats licensed in Quebec.

"ON" on a Registered vessel refers to "Official Number"

PS. Your own number of ON80101 is missing a digit, it should have six digits.

[Comix Bay]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Both are federal programs. Licensing is free and perpetual. Registering is a small fee, but must be renewed. What’s the practical difference for us non-commercial cruisers?

As for the fees:

Fees
Registration Costs
For the registration or re-registration of a Certificate of Registry $250.00
For the transfer of ownership of a vessel $150.00
To issue a deletion certificate for a Registered Vessel $50.00
To issue a provisional certificate for a vessel $150.00
To temporarily record a vessel that is going to be built or is under construction in Canada $25.00
To extend the reservation of an approved name for a vessel by 12 months $125.00
Mortgages
To register and subsequently discharge a mortgage $150.00
Changes and Alterations
To change the name of a Registered Vessel $250.00
To replace a lost or destroyed Certificate of Registry $50.00
To change the port of registry of a Registered Vessel $150.00
To report changes or alterations to a registered vessel $100.00
Historical Research
For historical research of a non-active vessel $10.00
For historical research of an active vessel $5.00
For historical research completed by the registrar using the computer database, per each 2-sided paper $2.00
Transcripts
For the issuance of a certified transcript $50.00
For the issuance of an uncertified transcript $20.00
Bare-Boat Chartered Vessels
For the issuance of a Certificate of Bareboat Registry, valid for 6 months $200.00
For the suspension of a Canadian Certificate of Registry, while it is listed in another country $100.00
For reinstatement of a Canadian Certificate of Registry $50.00

Ted VA7YQQ
Comox, BC

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

"ON" on a licensed boat does NOT stand for Official number. The new license system implemented in 2006 simply uses the two letter provincial designation of the province where first licensed i.e. "QC" is the prefix for boats licensed in Quebec …. it should have six digits.

BP, do you know if the six digits carry any additional data like the old one apparently did, or like a HIN code? Just curious…

Thanks Comix Bay — perhaps I shouldn’t have said “small fee”. Nothing “small” about $250 (at least not to me).

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

BP, do you know if the six digits carry any additional data like the old one apparently did, or like a HIN code? Just curious…

Thanks Comix Bay — perhaps I shouldn’t have said “small fee”. Nothing “small” about $250 (at least not to me).

The 6 digits I referred to was a register number not a license number. Sorry I should have made that more clear. Those digits carry no significance at all .... Each registry number is just a unique number.

Still stuck in Treasure Cay due to high winds. Hoping to get out of here in the morning to go visit the swimming pigs :

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Comix Bay

As for the fees:

For the transfer of ownership of a vessel $150.00
To change the name of a Registered Vessel $250.00
To change the port of registry of a Registered Vessel $150.00

So, if you buy a registered vessel, and want to transfer the ownership, along with a change of name and port:

$150 + $250 + $150 = $550 total.

Licensed vessel... $0

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Your own number of ON80101 is missing a digit, it should have six digits.

But which digit is missing? When I transferred the license they had no problem, and the license document they sent me had the same 5 (not 6) digit number. My marina, insurance co and the US/Canada border had no issues with my digits.

Maybe it was supposed to be ON080101 ?

I'm not worried tho...that boat is long gone...not my problem anymore.

Thanks for the info, and clearing up my mi5takes.

[Mirage35]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My understanding is that all boat sales (new or used) are subject to the HST or PST/GST (depending on which province the transaction is taking place). For a private sale you were (are?) supposed to send in the license transfer, along with the bill of sale. A tax bill is then issued on the sale amount. I have it on good authority () that the system didn't always work. Despite some people following all the rules, some people report that no tax bill was ever received. I don’t know how the current system is working, but I doubt that they’ve stopped collecting sales taxes on used boat sales.

...

I dug into this a bit and it indeed seems to be provincial. The best information I've found says that GST (and QST), being value-added tax, is not applied to used goods including boats. However, Ontario charges sales tax of 13% (if they find out about the sale and get around to it).

So, as a QC resident, if I buy in ON my best approach would be to change the port of registration and move the boat out of the province for long enough (whatever that may be ...) to then say that I'm an out-of-province visitor when I decide to sail Lake Ontario.

... Death and taxes ... at least this ought to be enough to confuse them until I no longer care ...

[boatpoker]

When a registered or licensed is changed to new ownership through Transport Canada it is your responsibility to declare the purchase to the province and pay the sales tax. TC and the provincial tax collectors rarely talk to each other (their computers don't talk to each other) although there apparently are occasional sweeps.

I know one person who got a bill with penalties seven years after the fact. I know another person that had the RCMP show up at his door and charged him with tax evasion. Curiously the fella that was charged with tax evasion had actually paid the tax but it took him over a year to prove it.

I've been around thousands of transactions that did not pay tax and only seen these two people pursued. Yer pays yer money (or not) an' takes yer chances

[Hunter33]

That is the same information I got for my boat licensing, the number stays with the boat just like in the UK when u buy a car the plate stays with the vehicle for its life span. it's for marine identification.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by hamburking

So, if you buy a registered vessel, and want to transfer the ownership, along with a change of name and port:

$150 + $250 + $150 = $550 total.

Licensed vessel... $0

I bought a licensed vessel and registered it and it was just $250. Couldn't you just drop the registration and do a new one if you were changing everything?

[Dangen]

[QUOTE=AnglaisInHull;2341926]I dug into this a bit and it indeed seems to be provincial. The best information I've found says that GST (and QST), being value-added tax, is not applied to used goods including boats. However, Ontario charges sales tax of 13% (if they find out about the sale and get around to it).



In The province of Quebec, the QST is applicable on used boats. I bought a used boat in Ontario that I Licenced in Quebec. Couple months later, I received a letter from Revenu Quebec asking me to send them a copy of the bill of sales, which I did, thinking that this would prove that I bought the boat used and that I would have no Tax to pay... WRONG!!! shortly after I received an "avis de cotisation" for $4500. Lesson learned, I should of checked the applicable laws first.

The boat I bought was registered and If I would of transferred the registry it would of cost me $250 and the provincial government would have not seen the transaction and not steal my $4500 dollars.

[helise]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Does it matter? Or perhaps I should ask, how does it matter?

This question occurred to me while chatting in the boat naming thread, but instead of further hijacking I though I’d pose it here.

Is there a practical or necessary difference for recreational boat owners between the two in Canada. And does it make a difference when travelling internationally?

Both are federal programs. Licensing is free and perpetual. Registering is a small fee, but must be renewed. Licensing requires the posting of an ugly number, but I don’t think it precludes name and home port as well. Registration only requires name and port.

What’s the practical difference for us non-commercial cruisers?

Hi! Mike,

License is good within port limits and/or territorial waters of that particular country, and Registering can be use and recognized internationally.

License is expiring yearly and Registering has no expiring date, but some port of registry such as Panama etc their certificate of registry is valid for two years and so on for the purpose of collecting yacht's tax or annual tonnage dues.

Regards.

Elise.