Religious Commercial or Political Personal Signal Flags at Marina slip

[japawil]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

The Southern leaders felt the conflict at Sumpter was a self defensive engagement. By all rights the property in South Carolina became the possession of South Carolina upon secession. While waiting for Union troops to withdraw from the fort, the southern force found themselves about to be pinned between two lines of forces, they had been outmaneuvered by Lincoln and were forced to open fire to defend their position. Lincoln was a brilliant strategist.
A short summary of the decisions behind the engagement can be viewed here: https://www.tulane.edu/~sumter/Reflections/LinWar.html
Just remember that is not the end all, be all on the matter, just a small synopsis of the mind games being played.

According to the article:

Alexander H. Stephens, claimed that the war was "inaugurated by Mr. Lincoln." Stephens readily acknowledged that General Beauregard's troops fired the "first gun." But, he argued, the larger truth is that "in personal or national conflicts, it is not he who strikes the first blow, or fires the first gun that inaugurates or begins the conflict." Rather, the true aggressor is "the first who renders force necessary."


Texas v. White
Seal of the United States Supreme Court
Supreme Court of the United States
Argued February 5, 1869
Decided April 12, 1869
Full case name
Texas v. White, et al.
Citations
74 U.S. 700 (more)
7 Wall. 700; 19 L. Ed. 227; 1868 U.S. LEXIS 1056; 1868 WL 11083
Holding
Texas (and the rest of the Confederacy) never left the Union during the Civil War, because a state cannot unilaterally secede from the United States.

Wouldn’t taking up arms to take over a government installation be considered
an aggressive action “rendering force necessary” to prevent such an action from occurring?
If an area/entity within the United States were to secede tomorrow, with out consent of congress or the rest of the country, would it be realistic for that area/entity to then expect the US to simply abandon a military installation
without defending it?
Wouldn’t that area/entity showing up with an armed militia with the intent of occupying that installation render force necessary?

[osprey877]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Mostly people I have asked about it think it is funny. What is funny about flying a symbol which represents terrorist criminal activity?

Nobody has answered this for me.

Answer:
The skull and crossbones flag does NOT represent a "terrorist criminal activity". It may have at some time in the distant past, but not today. Today it represents the funny and harmless "pirates" found at Disneyland or knocking on your door at Halloween. Flying the skull and crossbones today is universally understood to be a humourous and harmless statement to the general effect that the person flying the flag considers themselves to be a bit of wag. No connection with any terrorist criminal activity is implied.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I have the Chapmans book on boat etiquette which includes flag etiquette. I'll check it for a mention. I'll also look again at our clubs rules, though I don't recall anything different from what you've already stated.

There was a thread a while back discussing people taking offense (appropriately or inappropriately) about various things. One fellow wrote in to concur, and related how some people got hissy about him flying a prominent flag touting the 2020 reelection of a current leader... and weren't those other people rude for bringing it up? When it was suggested to him that it was perhaps inconsiderate of him to be bringing a symbol of a contentious and divisive political subject into what's supposed to be a shared space for the enjoyment of boating, his response was basically "my boat, I'll fly what I want".

So it's kind of sad that people can't shelve their political speech when engaging in a shared activity, but that's the headspace that seems to prevail right now. The 24/7 proclamation of one's political sentiment seems to have invaded most shared spaces, including boat clubs. We join things like boat clubs to share the pleasures, activities (and chores) of boating, and this shared interest is supposed to unite us in that, regardless of our views and alignments in other areas. It's often hard to remain cordial in a shared space when others are always up in your face with their political view.

And I don't mean to pick on just one side; both sides of the divide are guilty of too often "flying their flag" whether it's an actual flag, hat or shirt, or getting into arguments about politics, etc.

I would say it's going to be about impossible to restrict such displays in a marina; it's just a parking lot for boats, and people are paying for the privilege of parking. Clubs however make their own rules, so if they have their own docks, it should be theoretically possible to pass a bylaw that prohibits the display of overt political messaging within the club if a simple majority approves. But I am also aware of the difficulty of telling an American what they can or cannot say or do in public.

Good luck, anyway.

Thank you for a balanced view.

[Jolly Roger]

I have not read all 16 pages of this long thread—who has? But when we go from the OP’s first question about boat flags, to discussions about Fort Sumpter, there must certainly be some diverse opinions, so here’s mine.
The small marina where I keep my boat is on a public canal, a popular thoroughfare for every type of boat imaginable. It is also a manatee ‘slow-speed’ area and there are signs for ‘low wake’ because it’s quite narrow.
We always know when somebody is blatantly disregarding these notices, because our boats lurch violently. The offenders invariable fly ‘Trump 2020’ banners and a small tatty American flag, which seems to me to be a contradiction in expression. They are always power boaters with their caps on back-to-front. They are usually very fat, with fat wives, and the kids never wear life-jackets. They frequently play loud music; which people can hear on the road 200 yards away. There is little point in waving at them to slow down, because the response is usually a middle finger pointed skyward. A twelve pounder across their bow might do it.
How many manatees are scared for life by these boats tear-arsing along we will never know.
You can draw a lot of conclusions about these passers-by, but luckily for us, they do indeed pass-by, and are hardly ever seen on weekdays.
Some are now probably very sick with Corvid-19, because on the very same day that our Florida governor removed nearly all restrictions on travel and congregation, I took the attached shot of boats rafted up on the inter-coastal. They were hardly practicing social distancing, but then, I guess fiberglass boats can’t catch the virus. If you look closely (click to expand), you will see an array of different flags, including two for the re-election of our beloved leader, who will probably have lost half a dozen voters by November.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I think Tellie's right on this one. Our *feelings* are less important than the First Amendment's protection.

Therefore, I would think that if the OP wants to do something about flags at his club, it simply be a size limitation, for all flags.

Then you let the people declare themselves with smaller flags.

Sorry, I forget who suggested looking up the Gadsden flag. Wow, that has certainly changed significance since I was a kid! Here's a link: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...e-gadsden-flag So, it is interesting to me how symbols change over time. Rainbows had different meanings, too. It is that people take up things and put them down.

I have seen the Confederate flag displayed in Australia, and have not really enquired as to it's significance here.

Ann

Ann, the Gadsden flag has not a thing to do with race, it predates that by a very long time. Now I have never flown one, but the People that do, if they follow the original intent of the flag are displaying their concern over the Federal government being too strong, overreaching, too powerful, pick one.

But it has never had anything to do with race, slavery or whatever.


A more correct statement of the Gadsden flag

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

My belief in what it’s trying to symbolize is if you step on a Rattlesnake, you will very soon wish you hadn’t, and the Colonies are of course the snake and the flag is a warning to not oppress them or you will soon wish you hadn’t.
So it’s really a flag for the oppressed to rally around, how that was thought to be racist I have no idea.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I have not read all 16 pages of this long thread—who has? But when we go from the OP’s first question about boat flags, to discussions about Fort Sumpter, there must certainly be some diverse opinions, so here’s mine.
The small marina where I keep my boat is on a public canal, a popular thoroughfare for every type of boat imaginable. It is also a manatee ‘slow-speed’ area and there are signs for ‘low wake’ because it’s quite narrow.
We always know when somebody is blatantly disregarding these notices, because our boats lurch violently. The offenders invariable fly ‘Trump 2020’ banners and a small tatty American flag, which seems to me to be a contradiction in expression. They are always power boaters with their caps on back-to-front. They are usually very fat, with fat wives, and the kids never wear life-jackets. They frequently play loud music; which people can hear on the road 200 yards away. There is little point in waving at them to slow down, because the response is usually a middle finger pointed skyward. A twelve pounder across their bow might do it.
How many manatees are scared for life by these boats tear-arsing along we will never know.
You can draw a lot of conclusions about these passers-by, but luckily for us, they do indeed pass-by, and are hardly ever seen on weekdays.
Some are now probably very sick with Corvid-19, because on the very same day that our Florida governor removed nearly all restrictions on travel and congregation, I took the attached shot of boats rafted up on the inter-coastal. They were hardly practicing social distancing, but then, I guess fiberglass boats can’t catch the virus. If you look closely (click to expand), you will see an array of different flags, including two for the re-election of our beloved leader, who will probably have lost half a dozen voters by November.

Not sure how a trump flag and a American flag are a contradiction, as trump is the president of the United States

Per the corona/covid/wuhan virus, I’d say those boaters on the sand bar probably are not too concerned based on basic observations, shy of being at the limits of the average human lifespan, or already being on deaths door, its a bad cough with under a 1% death rate IF you even get it, so they made a choice to go enjoy the sand bar, thus is freeedom.
I’d wager our reaction to this virus will go down in history as one of the largest blunders.

As far as the baseball cap, really? I don’t often wear hats, but there are times I’ll wear it backwards for many reasons or I’ll wear it forwards, I don’t think that means anything

That said if these people are busting the speed limit in a area where there are other boats and also wildlife issues, that’s not cool.

[BBill]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

There is this one character at the local marina and it seems like his flags cover more area on his boat than his sails. He had a few flags which were a wolf on a confederate flag background. I had to look that up. The meaning varies but it's between southern pride and white supremacy and definitely racist. Not exactly what one want's to see at a public marina. And he had political flags too but I won't go there.

So you are saying southern pride = definitely a racist?

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Ann, the Gadsden flag has not a thing to do with race, it predates that by a very long time. Now I have never flown one, but the People that do, if they follow the original intent of the flag are displaying their concern over the Federal government being too strong, overreaching, too powerful, pick one.

But it has never had anything to do with race, slavery or whatever.


A more correct statement of the Gadsden flag

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

My belief in what it’s trying to symbolize is if you step on a Rattlesnake, you will very soon wish you hadn’t, and the Colonies are of course the snake and the flag is a warning to not oppress them or you will soon wish you hadn’t.
So it’s really a flag for the oppressed to rally around, how that was thought to be racist I have no idea.

I have an idea. It has been adopted and is being flown by racists irregardless of it’s original meaning. When you see the Gadsden flag flown alongside the confederate battle flag again and again, you get an idea of what it means to them......

As for the confederate battle flag being a symbol of heritage, just remember that the Obama Administration lasted twice as long as the confederacy of traitors. Any symbolism or heritage after the four years of killing American soldiers ended is that of racism and oppression of black citizens. Is that the heritage that is being lauded? Or is it the heritage of killing Americans for four years?

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

I have an idea. It has been adopted and is being flown by racists irregardless of it’s original meaning. When you see the Gadsden flag flown alongside the confederate battle flag again and again, you get an idea of what it means to them......

As for the confederate battle flag being a symbol of heritage, just remember that the Obama Administration lasted twice as long as the confederacy of traitors. Any symbolism or heritage after the four years of killing American soldiers ended is that of racism and oppression of black citizens. Is that the heritage that is being lauded? Or is it the heritage of killing Americans for four years?

The Gadsden has zero to do with “racism”. First there are very few racists, which there are VERY few of, in fact per FBI stats there are more people with pet tigers than legit white supremacists in the US, second if on of the very few racists decided to wear a NASA shirt, does that make NASA racist?

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I have not read all 16 pages of this long thread—who has? But when we go from the OP’s first question about boat flags, to discussions about Fort Sumpter, there must certainly be some diverse opinions, so here’s mine.
The small marina where I keep my boat is on a public canal, a popular thoroughfare for every type of boat imaginable. It is also a manatee ‘slow-speed’ area and there are signs for ‘low wake’ because it’s quite narrow.
We always know when somebody is blatantly disregarding these notices, because our boats lurch violently. The offenders invariable fly ‘Trump 2020’ banners and a small tatty American flag, which seems to me to be a contradiction in expression. They are always power boaters with their caps on back-to-front. They are usually very fat, with fat wives, and the kids never wear life-jackets. They frequently play loud music; which people can hear on the road 200 yards away. There is little point in waving at them to slow down, because the response is usually a middle finger pointed skyward. A twelve pounder across their bow might do it.
How many manatees are scared for life by these boats tear-arsing along we will never know.
You can draw a lot of conclusions about these passers-by, but luckily for us, they do indeed pass-by, and are hardly ever seen on weekdays.
Some are now probably very sick with Corvid-19, because on the very same day that our Florida governor removed nearly all restrictions on travel and congregation, I took the attached shot of boats rafted up on the inter-coastal. They were hardly practicing social distancing, but then, I guess fiberglass boats can’t catch the virus. If you look closely (click to expand), you will see an array of different flags, including two for the re-election of our beloved leader, who will probably have lost half a dozen voters by November.

[emoji106]

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by BBill

So you are saying southern pride = definitely a racist?

Off topic but exactly what is southern pride?

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Off topic but exactly what is southern pride?

What it sounds like?

Being proud to have southern roots

[Jolly Roger]

Not sure how a trump flag and a American flag are a contradiction, as trump is the president of the United States

The contradiction NorhternMac, lies in the word 'tatty', which no self-respecting patriot would allow his national flag to become.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

Not sure how a trump flag and a American flag are a contradiction, as trump is the president of the United States

The contradiction NorhternMac, lies in the word 'tatty', which no self-respecting patriot would allow his national flag to become.

So the American flag was tattered but the trump flag was bristol?

This does not logically add up IMHO

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by dergon

Sure. And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.



Doesn't get us closer to solving the problem though.

(At no time in history has the act of telling someone to "just calm down" actually caused them to calm down)

well,
off topic but it seems we are going to try and use that "just calm down" for the next couple years as we disband the police and ignore social order.

I can only suggest that this entire topic is focused on the TRUMP flags- It is totally unfathomable that one can get so worked up about a single person- yes, Trump represents the executive branch of US government, but what about Speaker of the House (I mean wake up next to that face) and the great Governor of NY that mandated returning COVID 19 patients to the ill equipped nursing homes?
You all need to recall that boating is a rich person's luxury and solve the issue either voting or shooting or drinking.