Report by MAIB on RIB Milly accident

[poiu]

This is a useful and interesting report following a horrid accident last year. The RIB skid, then threw its occupants out when doing a high speed turn. Two people died when the circling boat then ran them over.

I had never foreseen that people could be thrown out of a RIB in that way and that is the main takeaway for me. The use of kill cords is an important lesson too.

Marine Accident Investigation: Milly

[a64pilot]

My First Sargent died in a similar way many years ago in Lake Belton in Killeen Tx. They were Bass fishing and I guess Bass tournaments start with a boat race, their steering cable broke and they were thrown from the boat. After it rolled he left his friend holding onto the cooler and went to catch the boat that was idling in a circle, They had a "hot foot" like a car accelerator so when they were thrown out boat went to idle. Somehow the prop got him and of course killed him, didn't find him for about two weeks.
He was an extremely experienced boater from Louisiana, referred to himself as a "Coon Ass", grew up on the water and in boats since he could walk. Complacency is what killed him

[jtsailjt]

The PDF file contains the results of a thorough investigation and is a very interesting report. I've been driving motorboats since I was old enough to remember and I've never run into anything this extreme. I've done plenty of high speed "power turns" where the boat skids around and I have been on boats where, when the skid ends, you'd get a reversing heel angle like these people experienced, but nothing close to what might eject anyone from a boat. This was what I would consider to be a very high performance boat being used recreationally by fairly inexperienced boaters. 300hp on a 25' inflatable is would be very fast and very maneuverable like a sportscar and this would make it tempting to "play" with. I couldn't tell from the report whether the father reached across and increased the turn rate because he thought it would be more fun/exciting, or if he was primarily concerned that they were going to hit the beach at the existing turn rate.

One lesson I've learned over the years that I think applies to this accident but wasn't mentioned in the report is that when you are the driver of a vehicle, drive it the best you know how, and when you are a passenger, be the best passenger you can be, but don't force your unsolicited "help" on the person who is the driver if you are a passenger. It's OK to instruct or give guidance and it's OK to tell them to stop and let you drive, but it's NOT OK to reach over and adjust the wheel/throttle when someone else is trying to drive. You can get away with doing it on cruising sailboats but on any high performance car, airplane, or boat, it's a VERY dangerous thing to do.

I very recently purchased a much smaller, 11' center console RIB with only a 30hp engine on it, but after reading this report I plan to make a point of taking it out, with the kill switch lanyard attached to me, and exploring its characteristics in a tight, high speed turn because I just know my teenage kids are bound to eventually "accidentally" find themselves doing one and I want to be able to prepare them for it.

[boatman61]

If you act like an Ass and ignore basic laws of Physic's.. **** Happens...
Charles Darwin

[Hoofsmit]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If you act like an Ass and ignore basic laws of Physic's.. **** Happens...
Charles Darwin

Although very sad, I must agree, this happened within 20 miles of me and I know the estuary, ironically the entrance is called Doom bar !

This is natures ' selection of the fittest'

I still find it amazing how any body can walk into a retailers and drive away with this sort of craft, launch and put others in danger with no need for a test of competence in the uk

It not the first and it won't be the last..... But still very sad and such a waste of a families happiness

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Hoofsmit

Although very sad, I must agree, this happened within 20 miles of me and I know the estuary, ironically the entrance is called Doom bar !

This is natures ' selection of the fittest'

I still find it amazing how any body can walk into a retailers and drive away with this sort of craft, launch and put others in danger with no need for a test of competence in the uk

It not the first and it won't be the last..... But still very sad and such a waste of a families happiness

Well, they did go on a 2 day RYA training course (and the driver did the course in their boat "Milly"). Both were complemented on by their instructors. Ok not a test, but certainly they had more training than most RIB owners including me. The course doesn't cover this sort of maneuver and its dangers, a fact noted in the report as a failing with a recommendation to include such training on the course.

What they did is not too different from a regular car driver going beyond their and their car's limits. Happens all the time. Hundreds die every day across the planet.

[BandB]

First, we don't use our treadmills without kill cords.

Second, we have jet RIB tenders that have 40 knot speed capabilities. We do use kill cords and we are very careful as to speeds vs. conditions, rarely going over 20 or 25 knots. Now ours also have a setting that we use for any less experienced user limiting speed to approximately 25 knots.

Many tenders are high performance boats. They need to be respected as such. We've had boats that would exceed 55 knots that were not really high performance in nature. They were very easy to control and conditions impacted them little. They never had the risk of our tenders nor the ability to so easily be turned too quickly for conditions or taken into waves wrong and loose stability.

[MarkJ]

All your replies show that precious few, if any, read the report or all of the report.

Now stop the drivel and go read it! Its an excellently written report and easy to read.

The boat couldnt be controlled by the expert boat drivers doing the forensic tests. The naval architect was in agreeance.
Sure they would have lived if she had worn the safety rope, but they were killed within the range that the boat should have had the capacity to handle. Or not be sold on the open market.

As for pulling the Darwin joke out on the death of an 8 year old girl, well thats just not right!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

All your replies show that precious few, if any, read the report or all of the report.

Now stop the drivel and go read it! Its an excellently written report and easy to read.

The boat couldnt be controlled by the expert boat drivers doing the forensic tests. The naval architect was in agreeance.
Sure they would have lived if she had worn the safety rope, but they were killed within the range that the boat should have had the capacity to handle. Or not be sold on the open market.

As for pulling the Darwin joke out on the death of an 8 year old girl, well thats just not right!

The hook effect is much more common then you think and many deep V ribs suffer from it.
The manoeuvre ejected them , the lack of a kill cord, killed them

Sad, but simple accident

Dave

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

All your replies show that precious few, if any, read the report or all of the report.

Now stop the drivel and go read it! Its an excellently written report and easy to read.

The boat couldnt be controlled by the expert boat drivers doing the forensic tests. The naval architect was in agreeance.
Sure they would have lived if she had worn the safety rope, but they were killed within the range that the boat should have had the capacity to handle. Or not be sold on the open market.

As for pulling the Darwin joke out on the death of an 8 year old girl, well thats just not right!

My My Mark..
I don't have to read the report..
I remember the incident and the video of a brave bloke trying to jump on the boat and control it before it killed the rest in the water..
Yes its sad a child died.. but that's not anyone else's fault but the fathers.. and I was not joking.. someone with an ego bigger than his ability killed himself.. and his child.
Make sure YOU wear your kill cord..

[Hoofsmit]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

All your replies show that precious few, if any, read the report or all of the report.

Now stop the drivel and go read it! Its an excellently written report and easy to read.

The boat couldnt be controlled by the expert boat drivers doing the forensic tests. The naval architect was in agreeance.
Sure they would have lived if she had worn the safety rope, but they were killed within the range that the boat should have had the capacity to handle. Or not be sold on the open market.

As for pulling the Darwin joke out on the death of an 8 year old girl, well thats just not right!

Go do one !

You have far to much attitude

No joke was made .
.......these were friends of one of my employees and a client of mine witnessed the accident and phoned 999

Just an opinion, that those that push the boundaries do not think of the consequences . I am more than aware of his training , as others have said ... No different to a high performance road vehicle and the driver taking a corner beyond the limit.

From my experience all planning craft will catch a chine ( I have owned 5 different craft from 12 to 32 ft) at a certain speed , the report brings points to be well heeded,....... but drivel , I take exception to !

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The hook effect is much more common then you think and many deep V ribs suffer from it.
The manoeuvre ejected them , the lack of a kill cord, killed them

Sad, but simple accident

Dave

The design of the boat was wrong the naval architect and the expert drives proved it.
That "hook" effect that throws everyone out of the boat is a total disgrace! For those too lazy to read the article in a medium/high speed turn to to starboard the boat flips to PORT suddenly and chucks everyone out.

If you cant build a safe boat dont sell one! Like a car that rolls over when you turn a corner.

The kill cord is like the safety belt in the car... It does not release the manufacture of responsibility to build a safe car.

That was a new boat with matched engine bought through the marina where the deceased kept the boat.

Its not a sad a simple accident. Its a criminally culpable failure by the boat builders that killed an 8 year old girl.

It it was in the USA the lawyers would have a field day. Those sharks are, well, sharks, but at least they would sue the ass out of the company untill every rib boat builder understands they build a decent boat or lose their house.



Mark

[goboatingnow]

Fundementally, mark , you are wrong, as a ex- powerboat( RIB) instructor and holder of several advanced RIB certs and considerable sea experience, There are many quirks on high speed RIBS and many exhibit dangerous characteristics when subjected to a very sharp very high full throttle turn. IN advanced RIB courses considerable emphasis is placed on performing tight turns by reducing throttle. All RIBS will break grip in an excessive tight turn and hence must be handled with care

to use your car analogy, would you successfully sue GM , if you tried a full turn at flat out speed in your car and it crashed!!!!!!

These are not your little yacht tenders you know.

Ejection from a RIB is not an uncommon issue, especially under certain conditions, the use of a Kill Cord is a Key key requirement, Had that been worn the people in the water would have suffered a bad fright, as it was they suffered tragedy.

As to the lawyers, The RIB met the ISO requirements, which don't even get used in the US

Dave

[Hoofsmit]

[QUOTE=goboatingnow;1464385]Fundementally, mark , you are wrong, as a ex- powerboat( RIB) instructor and holder of several advanced RIB certs and considerable sea experience, There are many quirks on high speed RIBS and many exhibit dangerous characteristics when subjected to a very sharp very high full throttle turn. IN advanced RIB courses considerable emphasis is placed on performing tight turns by reducing throttle. All RIBS will break grip in an excessive tight turn and hence must be handled with care

to use your car analogy, would you successfully sue GM , if you tried a full turn at flat out speed in your car and it crashed!!!!!!

These are not your little yacht tenders you know.

Ejection from a RIB is not an uncommon issue, especially under certain conditions, the use of a Kill Cord is a Key key requirement, Had that been worn the people in the water would have suffered a bad fright, as it was they suffered tragedy.

As to the lawyers, The RIB met the ISO requirements, which don't even get used in the US

Dave[/

spot on
But I doubt he will agree.... Far easier for the likes of Mark to sue than take responsibility for there actions, which then means anything with an inherent risk will be no longer be made as the threat of litigation will be to high.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The design of the boat was wrong the naval architect and the expert drives proved it.
That "hook" effect that throws everyone out of the boat is a total disgrace! For those too lazy to read the article in a medium/high speed turn to to starboard the boat flips to PORT suddenly and chucks everyone out.

If you cant build a safe boat dont sell one! Like a car that rolls over when you turn a corner.

The kill cord is like the safety belt in the car... It does not release the manufacture of responsibility to build a safe car.

That was a new boat with matched engine bought through the marina where the deceased kept the boat.

Its not a sad a simple accident. Its a criminally culpable failure by the boat builders that killed an 8 year old girl.

It it was in the USA the lawyers would have a field day. Those sharks are, well, sharks, but at least they would sue the ass out of the company untill every rib boat builder understands they build a decent boat or lose their house.



Mark

If you reach over when your wife is driving your car and yank on the wheel while also stomping on the gas pedal, even the best/safest car is likely to crash.
The 8 year old girl was thrown into the water by a combination of the RIBs design and her fathers misguided actions. She was killed because the lanyard to the kill switch was not connected. It's pretty much impossible to build a 24' motorboat with a 300hp engine that somebody can't manage to kill themselves in. We all have to know our limitations and be careful out there!