Rope twist

[FutureCruiser2]

My gennaker halyard twists when I haul the sail up and down. It's made of Samson double-braid and goes through a swivel block attached to the masthead plate and down through a line brake to the winch.

I guess I thought that double-braid was a balanced weave that wouldn't twist. Failing that, I bought new 12-strand single-braid and it twists even more, ...a nightmare. Are there line constructions that twist less than others or don't twist at all?

[SailFastTri]

Are you coiling it round and round? If so, that's your problem. Watch this video for the proper way to handle lines and avoid adding twist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX4Zr0vdGHE

[FutureCruiser2]

No. I flake my halyards, not coil them. The twist seems to come from just pulling it through the block.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by FutureCruiser2

No. I flake my halyards, not coil them. The twist seems to come from just pulling it through the block.

Not likely. Did you watch the video?

[FutureCruiser2]

Well, I didn't watch the video at first, but went back and watched it at your urging to see if it actually might show me something that my 50 years of sailing hadn't already. Coiling the halyard isn't a problem. I'm well familiar with that and, actually, have found it to my advantage sometimes.

Case in point based on my long experience with double-braided line: something about its manufacture makes it twist when it's pulled through a block. That's a particular problem with my dinghy hoists where the line is reeved through two double blocks. Over the years I've evolved just the right length of coil to induce COUNTER-twist into the line, so it no longer kinks, ...I think the technical term is hackles.

So, no, I don't coil my double-braid. Neither do I do figure eights the way the video showed. Rather than coil or figure eight, I lay the line or "flake" it back and forth across my hand so that I don't introduce any twist.

I'm convinced that my problem has to do with the construction of the line. My theory is that when braided line goes through a block the weave pattern, with one set of fibers going one way around and another set of fibers going the other way, distributes the stresses unevenly, causing the line to twist. I would think that this would be something that rope manufacturers engineer out of their products, but I can't find any material that confirms my theory nor have I been able to identify a product that deals with the problem.

[Benz]

It has nothing to do with rope construction, and everything to do with wrapping it around a winch drum. While the line comes with a little bit of twist from being rolled onto a spool at the factory, this twist can soon be worked out by flaking it a couple times from one end to the other. However, perpetually winding it around a winch drum puts all sorts of twist in it--this is why halyards should never be put around winches. I know, I know--winches help with heavy things, but winches are bad for lines.

[FutureCruiser2]

I don’t mean to be unappreciative and I’m not absolutely insisting on my construction theory, but it has nothing to do with being wrapped around a winch drum. When I’m hauling the gennaker up, I haul hand over hand. The winch would be way too slow. Maybe the last six feet uses the winch, but it’s started twisting way before that. I am going through a line brake, so maybe that’s the problem.

If you look on some of the rope manufacturers web sites they actually warn about twist under strain, but don’t offer any products that are resistant to it as far as I’ve found.

[Benz]

The only other thing I can suggest is unreeving it with a messenger line to hold its place and trailing it straight behind your boat while you sail. That last six feet of winching is inducing a twist that has worked it's way gradually up the line. That's why bigger boats with 2 part halyards often have a swivel at the deadend aloft. That bit never touches the winch, but the twist from winching eventually works its way to the end.

[Bean Counter]

Does the halyard have a swivel attachment to the sail? If so does it spin easily?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

Does the halyard have a swivel attachment to the sail? If so does it spin easily?

I guess that would vary according to the amount of tension on it.. but I cannot see it making any difference to a part of line 40ft and more away from it and the other side of a block.. but.. if it makes the owner happier..

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I guess that would vary according to the amount of tension on it.. but I cannot see it making any difference to a part of line 40ft and more away from it and the other side of a block.. but.. if it makes the owner happier..

1. If it is a furling gennaker with non working swivel at the top that would transmit to the halyard when furling.

2. Often I have hoisted an asymmetric in a sock and the wind will spin the socked sail around, especially if tack is not secured first, again if there is a non working swivel this will transfer to the halyard. This is before any tension is applied to the sail. Many times I have pulled up the sock and the sail is twisted inside the sock somehow and as it fills the sail spins on the tack and head swivels and comes out clear.

[hellosailor]

hackle = hockle.

Hackles are erectile hairs, or fowl feathers. If you've got hackles on your lines, your boat has been possessed.(G)