round the world with long-term "charter"

[leecea]

Not sure what to make of this. You are trying to earn money by renting cabins at $2000 per month to extend your cruising and save your money.

But you want to buy a 60' catamaran. Such a boat, in good condition for ocean passages with guests, will be very expensive to buy and maintain.

If you bought a 40' catamaran of similar age and condition you could save multiple hundred thousands of dollars - far more than you could make with this rental scheme.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by leecea

Not sure what to make of this. You are trying to earn money by renting cabins at $2000 per month to extend your cruising and save your money.

But you want to buy a 60' catamaran. Such a boat, in good condition for ocean passages with guests, will be very expensive to buy and maintain.

If you bought a 40' catamaran of similar age and condition you could save multiple hundred thousands of dollars - far more than you could make with this rental scheme.

Something about cake and eat it too.

The market for people looking to circumnavigate at $2k per month with other strangers is relatively small. The market for people looking to do that under a novice "captain" is non-existant.

To the OP you may also want to look at your insurance policy and very likely it has in black and white that any business activity is not covered. If the boat sinks or is heavily damaged they will investigate find out you were operating a business, deny the claim and you just lost the five or six figure cost to repair the vessel assumming it can be repaired.

[more]

Originally Posted by vinicius

2000 per month and I will get more experience.

Tell me how much experience is needed, 6 months, 1 year is enough?


By buying the boat I have money to travel for 5 years. But I didn't want to spend all that money, I'm not rich, I come from a third world country, 1 dollar is 5 in my local currency and the minimum wage here is 240 dollars, in my country I'm considered rich.

what boat you planing buy, 60 ft cat boat is cheap today to buy
price is from 300000€ huge jump to around 1 mil€
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...e-600-9361491/

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...ef-62-9312651/

i never see this catland

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by vinicius

Thank you very much for the welcome. English is not my mother tongue but I can communicate without problems
About the experience I sailed for 3 months in the Caribbean and then went to Europe. There was an experienced captain on board. Can I get more experience first?
Regarding what I want to do, I see that there are people who are already doing this. If not, I will have limited travel time, until I run out of money and have to go back to work. Licensing a charter I think would be very difficult as it would be passing through several countries, in addition to the licenses and experience, I think I'll rely on luck. Returning to prices, I would like to rent 4 beds for 2000 dollars a month each with all expenses except alcoholic drinks. I saw people talking about 10 per day as 2000 per week, do you think this amount is reasonable?

Grief there's some people post rubbish here.

Many many people set sail on major voyages with little or no experience. I’m currently reading a book called We Who Pass Like Foam by a Benjamin Bartman. It details he and his wife’s (they marry on the trip) inaugural voyage from Florida to Panama on their little new to them 28 foot Capella with a pathetic little outboard. They had a single hand held GPS that they rarely turned on, preferring traditional navigation. The first chapter or two discusses the nay sayers at the local marina, horrified at their plans. Another book in the same ilk (and a significant motivator for myself some decades ago) is Shrimpy Sails by Shane Acton. Shane leaves the army with a small sum about the age of 25 (signed on for 7 years) and has no job nor place to live. And sees a little boat, a 16 foot wooden yacht called a bildge keeler. He buys it mainly as a cheap home, teaches himself to sail, and eventually decides to sail from England to France. When in France he decides to sail to Spain and then Portugal and so on, eventually continuing right around the world until several years later returns to England.

People have been undertaking such voyages, initially without experience for several decades now. And many indeed have partially funded their travels by sharing costs.

In the initial post vinicius you asked what a reasonable charge might be. I intended to make a suggestion, but neglected. Typically, for inexperienced crew, it is somewhere between $25 and $50 per day and yes let’s be clear US dollars. So that comes in at between $800 and $1,550 per month. My experience though is probably on the low side of the money because I haven’t been looking into this for some years.

My most recent knowledge of a trip done late last year was that the crew bought a number of needed parts, and helped prepare the vessel for a couple of months. One of the parts was an autopilot and I think another was an AIS, plus some smaller items (at least US$4,000). For the period of prep on land and the trip the crew paid a contribution to food as well. And I can add that the crew in that case (as I’ve seen in other cases) was very experienced and knowledgeable both in boat maintenance and as a sailor.

On the topic of qualifications. Again many many cruisers I come across have no nautical/sailing qualifications whatsoever. They bought a boat and set sail. And I come across many such people in Fiji and New Zealand who’ve sailed from either Europe or the US without ever setting foot in a classroom. And many with ‘friends’ on board helping to steer the ship and paying a contribution to food.

And whilst I don’t want to make this about me. The last time I did this as crew myself (Sept 21) My contribution was to buy the stores for the voyage. The account at the supermarket was nearly $800. There were 7 adults and all together we were on board for 17 or 18 days, 15 at sea. The crew included 4 back packers, 3 never even having sailed before and from memory they all paid about US $30 per day. But compared to an airfare, and backpacker style hotels it was/is actually cheap.

Just a quick look at the web site of a backpacker hostel close to me here in Wellington, and cheapest tariff is around $55 per night and that’s just bed. And tomorrow when you wake up hungry you’ll still be in the same place.

And let’s digress to insurance. Another issue many have offered as the limiting factor. Many cruisers can’t afford boat insurance, and have none. That’s the reality, and outside the developed world marinas don’t care or don’t want to know. They just want the money. I’ve yet to come across one asking for a certificate of insurance. And of those that do have an insurance policy it’s usually third party.

And for CF members that ask where’s my evidence? Well just count up all the ocean cruising yachts in a cyclone area during cyclone season given you all know they’ll never have gotten insurance to cover that.

Similarly many don’t have travel or health insurance. Many cruisers are people with very limited resources trying to stretch their small income living on rice, beans and whatever fish they can catch.

[Fore and Aft]

Grantmc you're looking at this question with rose tinted glasses.
The wife and I once had drinks on a 50 foot yacht that was taking young paying crew to supplement their income. A week later in another town that paying crew approached us while we were in a cafe and asked for some advice. They had paid a month in advance and the captain was a drunk. To the point that one night he was wasted but decided to do an overnight passage. Once out of the anchorage and on course he passed out leaving four newbies to run the yacht. Anyway they wanted to know what to do. We said walk away, forget the money and put it down to experience. Sure enough they left the yacht.
Another clown no idea if he was charging people but the yacht was definitely full of backpackers. Crossed the wide bay bar in the wrong conditions. Two of the crew were thrown in the water and by pure luck a rescue helicopter was nearby and saved them. Funny enough once tied up there was an exodus of the crew. I bet if someone had drowned that skipper would have had a lot of explaining to do.
Then last year I met a nice young lady on our dock and she was doing the share expenses on the boat thing. The skipper was a real creep and I wished I had slipped her my business card so she had someone to call if it went bad. I kept an eye on the news and nothing popped up. But I couldn't believe how nieve some people are.
I think alerting authorities to illegal charter boats is so easy now. All you need is a screen shot of the advertisement, then a quick email to the relevant authorities. NZ might be different Grant but here in Queensland you can expect a visit from AMSA pretty quick.
Cheers in

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

Some of my friends could quite easily go through $100 and then sum a day for booze and grub.

So could I. How is that relevant? The $10 being paid isn't for booze and grub. It is for what is most comparable to buss fare.

[Uricanejack]

The question of the thread is
"what is a reasonable amount to be considered a contribution rather than a fare".
Within the accepted rules for a pleasure voyage with "friends"

When I sail with actual friends. Contributions are just not an issue.
When we chartered we split the cost.
My friends don't pay to sail with me on my boat.
I don't pay my friends to sail with them. Or expect them to pay me.
We might go to the store and by groceries together.

To me. Not a comment on Law. Just how I define a friend.
A fixed contribution. Is not something expected of a friend.

If you want a cash contribution.
Fine. It might be perfectly ok legally.
You are probably a nice person. Just not a friend I choose to sail with.

What is a reasonable contribution.

I've seen adds. looking for crew.
Everyone chips in for victuals. Seams Ok to me. Doesn't conflict with my ideals for friend ship.
Will probably vary depending where you stock up.
If you expect to eat and drink well. It might be quite a bit.

If contributions for victuals are expected. Fine I expect to know what the bill for grub is and would be happy to pay my share.
If this is unreasonable, We wont be sailing together.

I've never crewed for an advertised voyage for someone I didn't personally know.
So I might not be the target audience.

I have skippered sailing course's. Which are commercial voyages. Some of the students do become friends. It's different.

[vinicius]

I see how conservative people are in terms of experience. As mentioned above, there are countless cruisers who left without any experience. I'm very conservative in terms of security, I only have 5 months of experience but I've already studied a lot, taken courses and I intend to get more experience.

[Calif.Ted]

If you already have a million dollars to finance this project you may be able to keep it afloat for a couple years. If you don't have the finances to buy a boat and circumnavigate without paying passengers it's not a realistic expectation for others to finance YOUR dream.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by vinicius

I see how conservative people are in terms of experience. As mentioned above, there are countless cruisers who left without any experience. I'm very conservative in terms of security, I only have 5 months of experience but I've already studied a lot, taken courses and I intend to get more experience.

Plenty of people starting cruising with little to know experience. There aren't plenty of people who want to pay for the opportunity to sail with a captain who is unlicensed, has no experience, who is operating a business that is "not a business", likely is uninsured and possibly over his head financially.

Best of luck though.

[barnakiel]

Few people go for month's vacation. Many go on a week or two week's charters.


How much you can ask from your clients will depend on location, boat standard, and the optional extras you can offer.


Just browse the net and you will easily find what other charter operators ask.


b.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by vinicius

I see how conservative people are in terms of experience. As mentioned above, there are countless cruisers who left without any experience. I'm very conservative in terms of security, I only have 5 months of experience but I've already studied a lot, taken courses and I intend to get more experience.

Yep, lots of folks have left without much experience, but damn few in 65-80 foot cats. The consequences of mishaps in a 30 foot monohull with no passengers are a bit less concerning than those possible in a venture like you propose.

IMO, your plans are unrealistic, likely illegal and certainly irresponsible.

Jim

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yep, lots of folks have left without much experience, but damn few in 65-80 foot cats. The consequences of mishaps in a 30 foot monohull with no passengers are a bit less concerning than those possible in a venture like you propose.

IMO, your plans are unrealistic, likely illegal and certainly irresponsible.

Jim

... and damned few charging $2000 for the privilege of watching some neophyte learning the ropes ... navigation, weather, the diesel, the electrical system etc .

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by vinicius

I see how conservative people are in terms of experience. As mentioned above, there are countless cruisers who left without any experience. I'm very conservative in terms of security, I only have 5 months of experience but I've already studied a lot, taken courses and I intend to get more experience.

Grief there's some people post rubbish here.

Many many people set sail on major voyages with little or no experience. I’m currently reading a book called We Who Pass Like Foam by a Benjamin Bartman. It details he and his wife’s (they marry on the trip) inaugural voyage from Florida to Panama on their little new to them 28 foot Capella with a pathetic little outboard. They had a single hand held GPS that they rarely turned on, preferring traditional navigation. The first chapter or two discusses the nay sayers at the local marina, horrified at their plans. Another book in the same ilk (and a significant motivator for myself some decades ago) is Shrimpy Sails by Shane Acton. Shane leaves the army with a small sum about the age of 25 (signed on for 7 years) and has no job nor place to live. And sees a little boat, a 16 foot wooden yacht called a bildge keeler. He buys it mainly as a cheap home, teaches himself to sail, and eventually decides to sail from England to France. When in France he decides to sail to Spain and then Portugal and so on, eventually continuing right around the world until several years later returns to England.

These are clearly Straw man arguments.
The initial post didn't say, "Hey, my wife and I want to buy a boat and travel around the world even though we have little experience." It clearly states that they want to take people with them.

Yeah, the forum can be rough with the darn words that random people type. But those words are nothing compared to the actual trauma that inexperience on the sea can (and many times will) cause... to the passengers, rescue/responders, and fellow sailors.

Anyways, welcome to CF Vinicius.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by vinicius

I only have 5 months of experience but I've already studied a lot, taken courses and I intend to get more experience.

Have you taken a marine electrical course (tip - it ain't close to what you did in your basement) ? Have you taken a diesel course, can you determine and correct an engine overheat issue? A marine corrosion course ? A meteorology course ? Can you identify the cause of that engine vibration and re-align the engine after repairing the issue ? Can you repair or replace a stuffing box at sea ? Can you track down a fuel starvation issue? A course on rigging, can you repair it ? How are you glass skills and that fractured bulkhead ? How about tracking down and fixing a stray current issue that is rapidly corroding your drives ?