Runaway Lewmar Electric winch

[team karst]

In my factory automation days, we always designed E stop switches in the motion systems. And, they got used.

[donradcliffe]

Emergency stop switch by the winch would complicate the wiring, but might not be a bad idea. However, some of these activations have been on unattended boats. There's no need to disconnect the wires to the motor, as each electric winch system has an isolating circuit breaker which should be turned off as a matter of habit when you leave the boat.

I never turn off my anchor windlass breaker when I leave the boat because someone might need it to save my boat. OTOH I have learned the hard way to always turn it off during a passage and to lash the anchor so it won't drop underway.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Emergency stop switch by the winch would complicate the wiring, but might not be a bad idea. However, some of these activations have been on unattended boats. There's no need to disconnect the wires to the motor, as each electric winch system has an isolating circuit breaker which should be turned off as a matter of habit when you leave the boat.

I never turn off my anchor windlass breaker when I leave the boat because someone might need it to save my boat. OTOH I have learned the hard way to always turn it off during a passage and to lash the anchor so it won't drop underway.

I am befuddled why anyone on any boat would need to leave lines attached to an electric winch when not on the boat (and not using the winch)?


In regards to the anchor windlass, I do turn mine off when not on the boat. But thus far, when that is true my boat is tied to a dock. If on a mooring then maybe that will change.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Emergency stop switch by the winch would complicate the wiring, but might not be a bad idea. However, some of these activations have been on unattended boats. There's no need to disconnect the wires to the motor, as each electric winch system has an isolating circuit breaker which should be turned off as a matter of habit when you leave the boat.

I never turn off my anchor windlass breaker when I leave the boat because someone might need it to save my boat. OTOH I have learned the hard way to always turn it off during a passage and to lash the anchor so it won't drop underway.

You do have a circuit breaker but to operate it you normally have to go into a lazarette, locker of even belowdecks. When you use a Blue Sea Systems RBS you can have the fancy switch that comes with it anywhere in the boat (nice switch panel) and put one of those red STOP switches parallel to it right where you operate the winch. The contacts to operate the RBS are momentary so all of these standard emergency switches work.

[away again]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yes, that was a problem the time a drop bear that had been hiding in the upper reaches of the rig dropped onto Ann's head and she let go the drill. Fortunately the drill on its second rotation snagged the halyard and wrapped it around the bear who promptly abandoned his attack. Likely saved her life, that drill!

Jim

Very lucky Jim, did you find it’s nest? I found one sleeping in the folds of the mainsail in the sail bag, still have nightmares about what could have happened if I hadn’t seen it before I raised the main.

[Dr.No]

I am putting four Blue Sea e-Series Dual Circuit Plus battery switches at the new 24 volt electrical panel. These will totally disconnect both positive and negative cables to the bow thruster, windlass, and both Andersen 72 Genoa winches. The disconnect on the negative side is a metal boat thing, absolutely not necessary for fiberglass vessels. I want to maintain positive control on when these powerful devices are used. Cheers!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by away again

Very lucky Jim, did you find it’s nest? I found one sleeping in the folds of the mainsail in the sail bag, still have nightmares about what could have happened if I hadn’t seen it before I raised the main.

Oh, man! How did you get rid of the Drop Bear poop that had accumulated on the sail? that's really nasty stuff, especially if there had been a lot of vegetarian tourists in it's diet recently.

Jim

[Mike Banks]

Disconnect the negative earth to your anchor windlass or your anchor chain will be part of the boat's earth negative, and you will lose your galvanising from the chain MUCH faster as it becomes another electrical connection to the best earth in the world--that salt ocean...

[away again]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Oh, man! How did you get rid of the Drop Bear poop that had accumulated on the sail? that's really nasty stuff, especially if there had been a lot of vegetarian tourists in it's diet recently.

Jim

There are a couple of stains still on there.
It was the sewing up of the slashing from the claws that took the most time. A good part of a spool of twine was used.
Boy was he angry to loose his bed though.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by away again

There are a couple of stains still on there.
It was the sewing up of the slashing from the claws that took the most time. A good part of a spool of twine was used.
Boy was he angry to loose his bed though.

Ahhh... one of the great advantages of spectra based cloth such as Hydranet is good bear claw resistance. I'm really grateful that we chose such material for our current suit of sails. Had we not, the incident that I reported upthread would have had serious repercussions. Sail shape is also good, except when there are great lumps of drop bear distorting the carefully designed airfoil.

There are lots of hazards in sailing that they never tell you about at boat shows!

Jim

[away again]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ahhh... one of the great advantages of spectra based cloth such as Hydranet is good bear claw resistance. I'm really grateful that we chose such material for our current suit of sails. Had we not, the incident that I reported upthread would have had serious repercussions. Sail shape is also good, except when there are great lumps of drop bear distorting the carefully designed airfoil.

There are lots of hazards in sailing that they never tell you about at boat shows!

Jim

Hydranet should highlight that in their Product Brochure, it is a feature that I and I and sure others, would be happy to pay the extra for.

As it is I am pleased to have installed the DB-1220 Auto BearDefurer, it has provided peace of mind when we have been anchored closer to shore than is ideal when the season is running hot. Sort of like have the extra sized anchor in a storm feeling.

If you pm me I will send you a link, also the set up is tricky to encompass a covered cockpit and I can explain how I did it.

Fergus

[SVQuestOfPaget]

Jim Cate and Away Again - Thank you for a good morning chuckle - Here in New England I hadn't heard of drop bears, so I had to look it up. It sounds like a terrifying experience to catch one on board, but good for keeping the tourist population down...

[shars.p]

Sad or dangerous climbing stories are generally ones of ignorance or naivety or laziness.
Injuries are GOING to happen... what are you doing to stop it happening to you?
Need I say it...Climbing is a very dangerous activity.
Sailors are most often NOT CLIMBERS.
BUT, Sailors often NEED to be able to climb.
If you want to be a sailor that can climb then go & learn to climb properly & invest in some gear - it WILL be life saving.

My system is from the arborist/tree-climbing world - these guys climb mast-like structures for a living & have all the systems/techniques to keep them & you safe.

My system (arborist style) involves tying a loop (figure 8-in-bight or alpine butterfly) in the end of my main sail halyard (which is in excellent condition!) where a 3 action climbing rated carbines & seperate, rated single pulley block is attached.
A seperate climbing line is fed through the block & the halyard is then raised up the mast wherever it is practical, more often than not to the very top.
The climbing line is specialist climbing/arborist rope - designed to stretch & absorb shock loads from a falling climber - the opposite of no-stretch Dyneema typical of a halyard!!)
The bitter end of the halyard is then taken around the mast winch, thru the self tail jaws & then cleated off on a seperate mast mounted cleat - the halyard is now double secured & exceedingly safe.
NOBODY TOUCHES THE HALYARD DURING THE ENTIRE CLIMB.
The climber dressed in a CLIMBING HARNESS (not a silly bosun chair) then attaches his climbing rig to the climbing line where he has total control of ascent & descent ALONE without any outside assistant operating a winch etc meaning this rig lets you safely solo climb if you choose to.

In affect, this system is one piece of line climbing another piece of line.

Pros:
- No second party (usually a loved one!) to kill you! - climber is only person in control of the climb & descent. (if you injure or die it will be most often your own fault - that's the way I want to go!)
- No reliance on ship winches or other boat related (ie NOT CLIMBING) equipment that can be misused or can fail (see OP Post).
- Safety is maximised using correctly fitted & rated climbing line & harness - not halyard line & chandlery rubbish bosun chairs.
- Redundant safety: If the climber becomes unconscious or gets stuck aloft then the halyard can be used to lower the entire climbing system back to the deck. Please ensure that your halyard system be in good working order before climbing!

Cons:
- Need to purchase, store & maintain a small amount of climbing gear.
- Climbing knots need to be tied correctly EVERY time (although 90% of my system stays tied even in storage).
- Halyard system needs to be in good working order.

Climb Harnesses:
- V comfortable, snug fitting (not loose like sitting on plank like bosuns chair) so long climbs are not a chore any more.
- Light weight & store small & flat
- Include multiple, rated attachment points for human weight and great for attaching tools/bags etc to get those jobs done up there.

Another part of the arborist system is a separate climbing rated length of line with attachments each called a lanyard. This invaluable tool doubles as a fall protector & a work positioning system. Picture an adjustable line secured to each of your hips that has been passed around the rigging & the mast. If you fall this short line will catch on the mast/rigging & stop your early demise you. On a good the lanyard will holding you close to the mast or the shroud etc as you get that job done. Particularly handy if there is any mast movement while you climb. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LANYARD PEOPLE! YOU WON'T SEE ARBORISTS CLIMBING WITHOUT ONE! They are an essential safety and comfort tool that you should have even if you decide to continue using your bosun chair system. I NEVER see any sailors climbing with a lanyard... v sad.

If you want to climb safely EVERY time, a system like this should be the standard. I always say, if there is another option which means YOU don't have to climb then take it & DON'T CLIMB. Otherwise I recommend getting GOOD at climbing.
It's also a great leisure activity - google recreational tree climbing & see.

Stay safe everyone.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yes, that was a problem the time a drop bear that had been hiding in the upper reaches of the rig dropped onto Ann's head and she let go the drill. Fortunately the drill on its second rotation snagged the halyard and wrapped it around the bear who promptly abandoned his attack. Likely saved her life, that drill!

Jim

Cunning little buggers those drop bears.

[Artboas]

Ok, I happen to know quite a bit about the poor woman who was badly hurt using an electric winch
Here is what happened
It was on an Amels, and it was a cruising couple,
He needed to go up the mast, and his wife did the chore by herself.
It was a Lewmar winch, with electric button

She had the line in the self tailer, and she took her finger off the button to stop the ascent at some point.
The winch kept going.

Now,,, I understand that she was freaking out, but the solution was simple…
Firstly , if anyone goes aloft, the line must go through a rope clutch which is closed. This is imperative . The Amels certainly had these. take the line out of the self tailer, drop 2 wraps off the drum, and let the winch spin. You can test that the rope clutch is holding the weight.

Unfortunately, that’s not she did.
For those of you who are a might squeamish, stop reading now…

She decided to try and pull the line out of the self-tailer under the wrap. Her wrist literally got sucked into the line, and kept going.
She was screaming in pain, and a fellow boater jumped aboard. He also got his hand damaged trying to free the woman. Literally a bloody mess.

The aftermath.
Lewmar sent out warnings galore to people with electric winches.
They changed the design of the switch to a very heavy plunger switch. It’s a lot harder to use than the old ones, but much safer.
Oddly enough, I had the same failure on one of my Lewmar switches. Replaced it immediately, and I’m very aware of why these were failing,
The thin rubber membrane leaked, and the micro switch contacts corroded. The membrane was easy to damage with fingernails, which was a huge issue
The new rubber boot on their switches is much thicker

Moral of this story
Sometimes there are only 2 people on board when someone goes aloft.
Always use 2 halyards
The lines must go through rope clutches.
Electric winches fail. It’s a fact of life & sea water.
Be calm. The line won’t drop with the clutch closed.
Take the line off the winch, cleat it, and shut off the battery switch.