Safe products for the ocean?

[a64pilot]

I believe and may be mistaken but that there is a fundamental difference in “soap” and “detergent”.
I believe whenever possible use soap, it’s more natural and I assume more easily degradable. Of course I’m sure one lawyer or another has re-defined the definition of both, so read the label if possible.
https://www.cleancult.com/blog/whats...and-detergent/

[Tom and Maje]

We're very conscious about anything that can go into the water from our boat. There are lots of certified green detergents and other cleaners. For shampoo, go to a drug store if you're in the US or Canada. In Europe they're called something else (not a pharmacy) and buy sulfate free hair products.

Maje

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe and may be mistaken but that there is a fundamental difference in “soap” and “detergent”.
I believe whenever possible use soap, it’s more natural and I assume more easily degradable. Of course I’m sure one lawyer or another has re-defined the definition of both, so read the label if possible.
https://www.cleancult.com/blog/whats...and-detergent/

You are correct that soaps and detergents are very different products. Short answer, basic soap is made by reacting fats or oils with a base. Think of the pioneers homemade lye soap that boiled lard from the animals they ate and lye. It was pretty harsh stuff but pretty much "natural" and I think would break down easily into non toxic remnants.

Detergents are synthetic and one commonality is a surfactant, sometimes called a wetting agent, that breaks the surface tension of water which allows it to better wet and clean. Most common surfactant is ethoxylated nonyl phenol which has been banned in Europe for detergent use as carcinogenic. Safer detergents are switching to surfactants made from fatty alcohols that are derived from plant oils. Detergents also contain agents to break down oils and fats, phosphates, and more.

So in general soaps are more environmentally friendly than detergents but as said, in the quantities boaters use I don't think there's a significant environmental impact by either one.

[thinwater]

You're off the point. The scenario is false, or at least represents a very, very minor part of your time on the water.



How many days does the average sailor, even cruiser, spend underway, off shore? A few dozen? How much actual washing do you do on those days? Very little. Water is often rationed.In fact, you wait until the end of the passage unless it is a large crossing, which are a trivial part of the whole.



In fact, you spend nearly all of your days inshore, anchored, or in a marina. That is certainly where you bath and do the wash. On those days you are the same as any landsman, with no more dilution than any landsman, except you sink water did not go through sewage treatment.


Some areas are sensitive some are less so. But yeah, some guilt would do you good.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In fact, you spend nearly all of your days inshore, anchored, or in a marina. That is certainly where you bath and do the wash.

I am confused why that would matter. When I use the sinks, they don't empy into a holding tank. They go into a marina that empties into the ocean.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by thinwater

You're off the point. The scenario is false, or at least represents a very, very minor part of your time on the water.



How many days does the average sailor, even cruiser, spend underway, off shore? A few dozen? How much actual washing do you do on those days? Very little. Water is often rationed.In fact, you wait until the end of the passage unless it is a large crossing, which are a trivial part of the whole.



In fact, you spend nearly all of your days inshore, anchored, or in a marina. That is certainly where you bath and do the wash. On those days you are the same as any landsman, with no more dilution than any landsman, except you sink water did not go through sewage treatment.


Some areas are sensitive some are less so. But yeah, some guilt would do you good.

Quite a few of us spend our time in anchorages that are directly connected to the ocean, and we wash our clothes in a clothes washer and shower daily.
On passage we don’t wash clothes, but still do dishes and shower daily.

Now I’m not saying go overboard, but if you can make a difference if you do just a little shopping, and don’t buy that overpriced product with “green” on the label, or biodegradable.
Just like “Organic” is often just marketing, but as you say some feel smug and only buy “organic”.

For example your used engine oil is biodegradable, but don’t dump it overboard.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Rohan

I am confused why that would matter. When I use the sinks, they don't empty into a holding tank. They go into a marina that empties into the ocean.

I miss-read a post. it does not matter.


The main thing is to minimize use. Use only what you must.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Every little helps.


It would be way way more efficient to limit the number of marinas and boats though.


Today the problem is not so much the kind of chemo in use as the proliferation of marinas, boats and tourism.


If you can buy and afford the less noxious solution, go for it.


Cheers,

b.

There was an embarrassing environmental project that analysed marinas on the east coast of Australia with the prime objective of preventing further marina developments. The results showed that the marinas actually improved fish stocks because they acted as nurseries for fry that were eaten by bigger and bigger fish and generally improved the marine ecosystems. The report was buried by the anti marina protagonists.

[Tupaia]

The UK banned all personal care products that contain micro-beads circa 2018. Micro-beads are one of the worst unseen causes of marine pollution. Lobbying the authorities in your own country to achieve a similar ban globally would be an environmental cause that I would wholeheartedly support.


Baby steps.


Far better than protesting with plastic banners, trying to stop flying.

[Tupaia]

When on-board we prefer to shop at local markets but when needs must and we visit a supermarket we unpack all produce and leave the packaging with the retailer to deal with. If everyone did this the disposal issues would become more obvious to those that have to power to change it, the retailer.

[Tom and Maje]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

The UK banned all personal care products that contain micro-beads circa 2018. Micro-beads are one of the worst unseen causes of marine pollution. Lobbying the authorities in your own country to achieve a similar ban globally would be an environmental cause that I would wholeheartedly support.

The manufactures in Europe just stopped using micro-beads because they knew the EU would ban them.

Maje

[Tom and Maje]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

When on-board we prefer to shop at local markets but when needs must and we visit a supermarket we unpack all produce and leave the packaging with the retailer to deal with. If everyone did this the disposal issues would become more obvious to those that have to power to change it, the retailer.

We leave everything we can, but when I have to take boxes back to the boat, I put them in other storage containers and throw away the boxes. When we made our transatlantic crossing, our crew member was amazed that we only used one trash bag in two weeks.

Maje