Safe products for the ocean?

[Rohan]

Can't find another forum for this, so posting it here. What is the consensus for using environmentally safe products such as dishwashing liquid, soap, shampoo? Everything in the sinks or shower on a boat eventually drains out to the ocean. I know the impact from one sailboat is small, but it still bothers me.

There are some products advertised as marine safe, but they are pretty damn expensive at Marine supply stores. I found one shampoo that was reasonably priced at my local grocery store but now they don't seem to carry it anymore. Is there another way to mitigate this, or should I even care about it? At least detergents don't contain oils - in fact, they break up oils.

On that note, what about organic oils, like vegetable oil? Is there any problem with those going down the sink?

[dlj]

Very interesting question. Im' interested in the answer but don't know the answer. I've always regarded biodegradable products as filling that need, but I don't really know.

dj

[a64pilot]

An age old argument that of course drives the Greenies nuts but does have a lot of scientific truth to it, is the solution to pollution is dilution.
Meaning of course that if not overwhelmed that nature has ways to deal with contamination.
I would suggest that often what drives “marine safe” products is marketing plain and simple, but beyond paying for the marketing I would suggest that avoiding complex chemicals may help. Use plan soap for instance and laundry detergent that is free of smell and colors etc.
My take is if it’s organic, and you eat it, most of the time it’s OK to go overboard assuming your in an anchorage with good flow and open to the ocean, meaning excess food etc.
Vegetable oils etc are not like petroleum oils, and detergents don’t break down petroleum oils. They can emulsify or disperse it, but that merely hides it and can in fact be worse than doing nothing.
But hiding it makes it “go away” so people think the problem is solved.
But I would say that even petroleum oils aren’t the huge disaster that they are made out to be, at least in small quantities, or the Pacific would be a wasteland from WWII, along with the Gulf of Mexico etc.

I question for example just in all honestly how much effect sunscreen has on reefs, or is it more marketing to sell items at a much greater profit margin?
I don’t wear sunscreen myself, reef safe or not.

So what I am saying is to use common sense, don’t of course dump oil overboard, recycle it. But also don’t worry too much about a little spoiled lettuce, or don’t wash your hair being concerned about the environment.
But do use regular shampoo, ones free of complex chemicals.
Marina’s I have been in mostly go way overboard about zero discharge etc. and sure why not, but every time it rains there is always an oily sheen on the water in the Marina, it comes from the parking lot, that drains directly into the Marina basin, and never has an oil separator to separate out the oils form the Asphalt and the cars leaking. Parking lot is worse than the boats, but never gets a bit of attention.

We often it seems do things from a sense of social pressure etc., and don’t necessarily focus our efforts where it could do the most good.

Example, everyday I see commercials to send in money to protect the Polar Bears as their habitat is shrinking form melting ice, and they need protecting, but not once, ever has their been an explanation on what the money will be used for, how will it keep the ice from melting?
I strongly suspect it will be spent to “raise awareness” meaning of course it won’t do anything at all for the Polar Bears.

Most things bio degrade, obviously never throw plastics overboard and even lots of products are full of plastics that we don’t know about, the pearlescent tooth pastes and shampoos are often plastic, Baby wipes are most often plastic and even “paper towels” are often actually plastic now.
So a little education and label reading may be more effective than spending lots more for stuff that may nit be any different really, just labeled organic or whatever and sold at a higher price

[Allwayslearning]

a64pilot, thanks. That is one of the most intelligent and well thought out comments on this complex issue I have ever seen.

[Scubaseas]

What a64piot said but try to avoid anything withthe following which are all reef killers. It's more your sunscreen than any amount of Dawn or Baby Shampoo.

Oxybenzone is found in over 3500 sunscreen products worldwide. Butylparaben - Preservative ingredient shown to cause coral bleaching. Octinoxate (Ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate) - Sunscreen ingredient shown to cause coral bleaching. 4-methylbenzylidene camphor (4MBC) - Sunscreen ingredient shown to cause coral bleaching.

[Scubaseas]

I question for example just in all honestly how much effect sunscreen has on reefs, or is it more marketing to sell items at a much greater profit margin?

A lot from my observation. I own a dive shop. We had a cruise pier built and this was before lion fish invaded and water temps rose due to climate change. About a year after buttered up tourists started coming the reefs closest to and down current from same started to have significant bleaching. There's tons of good science out there on the subject.



https://cdhc.noaa.gov/_docs/Site%20B...reen_final.pdf

[fred4936]

Another thank you to A64pilot! Well said! My wife and I are also very conscientious about these things, and thanks to the OP to bring this up. When we shop for almost anything, we check the ingredients to make our best guess as to any detrimental effects to us or the environment. I cannot make specific recommendations, just to shop and read. One of the commendable things, among many, of fellow sailors is to be aware of these things. If I find specific items, I will let you know.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

A lot from my observation. I own a dive shop. We had a cruise pier built and this was before lion fish invaded and water temps rose due to climate change. About a year after buttered up tourists started coming the reefs closest to and down current from same started to have significant bleaching. There's tons of good science out there on the subject.



https://cdhc.noaa.gov/_docs/Site%20B...reen_final.pdf

Just like everything else if you dig just a little I think you will find very little, actual science behind it, it mostly was from one test, and became political if you will.
I just have a hard time believing the concentration from swimmers is enough to actually be high enough to cause harm not that the chemical is harmful, that’s easy to prove, but If the concentration in the test isn’t what is actually out there, then the logic brakes down.
It’s a little like ionizing radiation, not much is more deadly, but there is a dose rate at which it’s not.
It’s just the trillions of gallons of water that flows through a reef daily, I have a hard time believing that there is enough sunscreen to be a problem.

I m not saying reefs aren’t being bleached, it’s obvious they are, I just question how much of it is being caused by sunscreen

[slug]

Originally Posted by Rohan

Can't find another forum for this, so posting it here. What is the consensus for using environmentally safe products such as dishwashing liquid, soap, shampoo? Everything in the sinks or shower on a boat eventually drains out to the ocean. I know the impact from one sailboat is small, but it still bothers me.

There are some products advertised as marine safe, but they are pretty damn expensive at Marine supply stores. I found one shampoo that was reasonably priced at my local grocery store but now they don't seem to carry it anymore. Is there another way to mitigate this, or should I even care about it? At least detergents don't contain oils - in fact, they break up oils.

On that note, what about organic oils, like vegetable oil? Is there any problem with those going down the sink?

Banish toxics Like Toilet cleaner , bleach , chemicals .

Don’t waste money any eco friendly stuff...white mans guilt

Stick with simple hot water , soap and water , vinegar , citric acid , alcohol for cleaning
Collect your solid waste and dispose of correctly

Keep your environmental footprint small by living simply
Think about how you behave and what you consume

[barnakiel]

Every little helps.


It would be way way more efficient to limit the number of marinas and boats though.


Today the problem is not so much the kind of chemo in use as the proliferation of marinas, boats and tourism.


If you can buy and afford the less noxious solution, go for it.


Cheers,

b.

[davenrino]

Quote:
I question for example just in all honestly how much effect sunscreen has on reefs, or is it more marketing to sell items at a much greater profit margin?

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

A lot from my observation. I own a dive shop. We had a cruise pier built and this was before lion fish invaded and water temps rose due to climate change. About a year after buttered up tourists started coming the reefs closest to and down current from same started to have significant bleaching. There's tons of good science out there on the subject.



https://cdhc.noaa.gov/_docs/Site%20B...reen_final.pdf

Hawaii has banned the use or sale of sunscreen determined to harm reefs.

[GreenWave]

Just to add, I would avoid putting any vegetable oils or other fats down your sink. Not so much to deal with harm to nature as it is avoiding harm on your plumbing in the boat. Use a tin can for the scraps/runoff and then toss accordingly.

[BobKat86]

Dawn, of course, is the primary product for dishes and washing hands. I have found a product called Blueland, which has environmental friendly products for cleaning up on the vessel.

I have also discovered Skoy reusable paper towels, which reduces the paper waste. Simply rinse them and let them dry.

I tested all the products at my house before I got them for the boat.

Hope this helps.

[Kokanee]

It is difficult to know what the really harmful products are. The world is currently relying on dilution being the solution. That works well until we hit the tipping point, and it is very difficult to predict where that tipping point is. The whole planet is a bit of a science experiment but the experiment needs to be managed by scientists. Lately, their voice seems to be drowned out by corporations and politicians.

I wish it was as easy as "don't use chemicals" Well, that doesn't leave much. All cleaning products, food, drinks, everything is made up of chemicals. The only things not made of chemicals are dreams, thoughts, sound, heat, magnetism although most of these are created using chemicals. I've had some amazing thoughts using chemicals.

I suggest we just try to live as simple as possible. Reuse, repair, rebuild where possible and try to minimise our footprints.

[Don C L]

Dr. Bronner's! I use it for everything except dishes