Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

[watersofdiego]

Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest

The pic looks to be dragged from sites describing the '98 Sydney-Hobart, so I'd say its from that race, where 5 boats sank and 6 lost their lives. A rough year that one.

Yeah you are right. The pic is from the '98 Sydney-Hobart.

1998 Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And here's the website where I found the image -

Into the Eye of the Storm - the Sydney to Hobart Tragedy

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

That's interesting. I've been looking at ATN gale sails. They go from 30 sq feet to 60. I think 60 might be too much for my boat because her bow is so responsive. But I don't know.

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I've heard a number of people refer to their 100% sail as their "storm sail."

The offshore special regs define a storm jib as "e) a storm jib of area not greater than 5% height of the foretriangle squared, with luff maximum length 65% height of the foretriangle "

And some believe that is now a bit big (for extreme conditions) for modern race boats with their very high rigs and sail area.


Edit: just to add . . . the ORC also defines a lightly bigger: "f) a heavy-weather jib (or heavy-weather sail in a yacht with no forestay) of area not greater than 13.5% height of the foretriangle squared;

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

page 545

You read 545 pages????????????????????????????????????????????? ????

[roverhi]

In strong winds, there is no way a boat will beat to weather with a storm jib, alone. With all the wind pressure on the sail at the bow, you'll be lucky to get the boat to head up to 90 degrees off the relative wind. If you feel the need to be able to go to windward in storm conditions, you need a storm trisail or a main with reef paints that will pull it down to handkerchief size. You need the sail area aft of the mast that will drive the bow up and counter act the force on the storm jib. In severe conditions, the storm jib can do little more than keep the bow pointing down wind.

Not unusual to read about boats who have been forced to strike all sail and are running under bare poles because tne winds are so strong. Don't know if I'd want to be on the bow hanking on even a very small storm jib in survival conditions.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

boats very often get into trouble (rolled) after the very worst of the storm has passed and the waves are still large, but the wind has dropped and shifted direction. This often has the boats wallowing and beam on to the waves, and the skippers (who are often fried at this point) don't react quickly enough to the changed situation, and they get popped on the beam by the still 'large enough' left over waves.
.

That would be a good thought to add to your essay on heavy weather sailing in modern boats. BTW can you post another link to it? Mine is lost somewhere and I would like to read it again and save it.


Mark

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by roverhi

In strong winds, there is no way a boat will beat to weather with a storm jib, alone. .

mmmm . . . . . It just so happens that 'upwind with just the storm jib' was in fact one of the most successful techniques employed in this Hobart storm. They would 'close reach' (at 50-60 apparent angle) across the backs of the waves and come up to 'close hauled' (30-40 apparent) to punch thru the crests, and then fall off again to the close reach to avoid 'falling off' the back of the wave.

The general consensus in the aftermath was that the ORC sized trisails were more 'too big' than the storm jibs.

But note . . . . . these were race boats, with full crew, excellent helms, high stability, and great sailing performance. These are not mom and pop on an overloaded cruising boat, which typically can't sail upwind without the motor even in perfect conditions.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

That would be a good thought to add to your essay on heavy weather sailing in modern boats. BTW can you post another link to it? Mine is lost somewhere and I would like to read it again and save it.
Mark

Link

That's really focused on the sailing (and drag devices) aspects.

Somewhere I have a piece on storms that looks at the bigger picture of leadership, and when to focus on what. But I don't think it's posted anywhere. I wrote it a long time ago and my thinking has probably changed/evolved quite a bit. I should sometime find it and update it.

By the way, I agree with you about the wind in that photo. One trick/tip - there is very visible 'smoke' in 60kts. Its really a noticeable 'phase change' in the surface, which allows you to easily judge a photo over or under 60kts.

[AiniA]

I find it hard enough to estimate wave nights when I am sitting in the cockpit and here people are arguing about the height of a wave from a video capture from the perspective of a helicopter. Better eyes than I Gunga Din.

Just looking at it, it seems nasty, but not I am going to die nasty. The really horrible happened earlier when it was too windy for a helicopter to be taking pictures.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

The offshore special regs define a storm jib as "e) a storm jib of area not greater than 5% height of the foretriangle squared, with luff maximum length 65% height of the foretriangle "

And some believe that is now a bit big (for extreme conditions) for modern race boats with their very high rigs and sail area.


Edit: just to add . . . the ORC also defines a lightly bigger: "f) a heavy-weather jib (or heavy-weather sail in a yacht with no forestay) of area not greater than 13.5% height of the foretriangle squared;

Don't get me wrong. I know a 100% sail is not a storm sail. I think what these people are really saying is "That's my smallest headsail."

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

mmmm . . . . . It just so happens that 'upwind with just the storm jib' was in fact one of the most successful techniques employed in this Hobart storm. They would 'close reach' (at 50-60 apparent angle) across the backs of the waves and come up to 'close hauled' (30-40 apparent) to punch thru the crests, and then fall off again to the close reach to avoid 'falling off' the back of the wave.

+1, have made 7 1/2 knots boatspeed to weather on a fully crewed J-35 with only a No. 4 blade and no mainsail in steady 75 knot winds with gusts to 83 knots. Could not look to weather, helmsman had to hide behind someone to see to drive the boat, had all the meat on the rail. Half dozen boats dismasted and many more retired, but we won our section that year.

I'd likely be soiling myself in that same situation with just my wife aboard our shoal draft cruising boat laden with all our junk. Scary stuff.

R.I.P. to those lost at sea.

[Bashleys]

The Wave: In Pursuit of the Rogues, Freaks, and Giants of the Ocean Susan Casey

Everything u ever wanted, or didn't want to know about, "Rogues".

[Tymadman]

Interesting posts guys, but am I the only one to notice that despite the title of this thread the wave wasn't actually red :-)

[Coops]

That is funny.

Coops.

[vtcapo]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

That was also my first thought - holes (in the sea) as big as houses fairly normal........but I think this a bit different, if that a 40 foot boat then they are big (effing big!) waves and not much gap between them. The good news is that they are not breaking!, the bad news is that beam on - could roll (again) I guess but not a certainty..........probably a bit windy as well ...........of course not somewhere I would choose to be, especially with no mast (and no manoeuvrability)!!

In any event, I would prefer to still be on the boat than in a liferaft......or trying to climb up the side of a Ship!.....would think twice about a helicopter ride. lets hope if I ever get into that situation I still have WIFI and can ask CF . Would be like sitting in a washing machine - at that point would want to be on a boat made from more than veneered MDF.....but clearly that a YMMV thing.


Of course if she was racing then likely she was pushing her luck a bit to make progress rather than hunkering down (or running in a different direction!).....hence the rig loss, no guarantee of course would not have happened anyway.

I would have to agree with you on NOT leaving the boat. If she is not taking on water and not breaking up your best chance for survival is staying on board. But like the Perfect Storm what we probably have is a May Day and they are in the helicopter. Remember the captain of the West Sail 32 that survived that storm wanted to stay aboard but was ordered off.

No way would I go into a life raft in those seas unless I was sinking. I would have tried my best to run before it trailing warps or a drogue. Then again I sail a double ender which I believe would be the best thing to do in that type of boat...

RT

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Tymadman

Interesting posts guys, but am I the only one to notice that despite the title of this thread the wave wasn't actually red :-)

Beat me to that one!

In any event, I don't see that as being a "rogue" wave - as given the reported conditions a ginourmous wave or 3 to be expected. Unwelcome and inconvenient not the same as "rogue".

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Tymadman

Interesting posts guys, but am I the only one to notice that despite the title of this thread the wave wasn't actually red :-)

Not even slightly "marooned"....