Sailboat washes ashore on Pensacola Beach

[Wolfe10]

OK, main still not raised-- please explain how he/they could not broad reach toward their destination (given conditions on Ventusky at the time)?


Psychological issues with fatigue-- sure.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by davil

============================
after watching, it makes it harder to justify many chastising posters opinions on “calm seas” “no indications of rough weather” and how ease was classified as another idiot.

What part of the link explained how they ended up in an 'unforecast' Force 9-10 gale-force storm? The USCG swimmer said their helo took a while as they were dodging squalls, which is normal this time of year.

They were obviously surprised by the weather. Question is was the forecast wrong or did they fail to comprehend it? I find it hard to believe there was an unforecast storm of this magnitude in GoM given the commercial interests there. More likely they checked the wind forecast with strong winds over the stern and figured they were good to go. Never gave the Gulfstream a second's thought. In GoM, the Gulfstream does a giant oxbow towards Lousiana before heading southward 100-200 miles off FLorida's gulf coast, often close to 3-1/2 kts. 25-kts of wind against 3+ kts of current won't be pretty.

They may have been surprised by the weather. Question is whether they should have been. Fair question in my mind.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GILow

I frequently help people with VHF problems and nine times out of ten the SWR is off the scale due to bad wiring or corroded connections. The problem is, the diligent ones do a radio check as they leave the harbour, only a few hundred meters from the VMR station. Just about any setup will cover that range.

The non-diligent ones don’t even do a radio check. Then get a nasty surprise when they need the radio.

You are way too nice. The non diligent ones stick a coax cable in a connector without any soldering/crimping and call it good.

[Wolfe10]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

The USCG swimmer said their helo took a while as they were dodging squalls, which is normal this time of year.

Sorry, spend a lot if time sailing in the Gulf of Mexico.

"Squalls" will NOT generate 20' seas!


Will they make things uncomfortable in the short term-- yup. Particularly if with the wrong sails up/wrong point of sail.

[JPA Cate]

If in fact they lacked experience, they might have had a landlubber's notions of squalls. That is they may have not thought about them as something about which to feel concerned. One drives right through them, might have lost an umbrella to one. I imagine mvweebles 35 yrs. of deliveries upwind and current on the west coast of Calif. probably taught him to read between the lines on the wx forecasts. But that kind of attention is not what new sailors give to it. An expensive lesson. I suppose they were motoring when the jib unfurled, and the lazy sheet got wrapped. They wouldn't have had a clue.

We had a hyfield lever come agley from the deck on our staysail, and it doesn't take long to shred a sail. Took us quite a while to get into shelter to square everything away, but snagging the furler with the boat surging around was pretty scary. Successful catch, and able to secure the furler finally, but the sail was toast. I secured the sheets, so we avoided a problem/loss there, and we sailed on a double reefed main. But we practice, a lot, to the extent of practicing sailing onto and off the hook; we know how the boat feels and how much space to allow.



Those poor guys had a really bad day.

Ann

[gonesail]

we had the same thing in st. Augustine last year. guy never tried to sail off the shore. panicked after his engine failed and then tried to set an anchor in hard sand.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Wolfe10

Sorry, spend a lot if time sailing in the Gulf of Mexico.

"Squalls" will NOT generate 20' seas!


Will they make things uncomfortable in the short term-- yup. Particularly if with the wrong sails up/wrong point of sail.

That was my point - I just don't believe there were 20' seas. What was there was probably pretty confused and much bigger than they expected because they didn't know how to interpret the forecast But not Force 10. Squall's have neither the fetch nor duration to create such conditions.

[JPA Cate]

^^^^^They may not have known how to estimate wave heights, as in, don't do it from the bottom of the trough. We weren't born knowing this, but new sailors may not have had the chance to learn yet. We think in terms of their not knowing what they don't know, and one can't think of everything to tell the inexperienced ones not to do!

Ann

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Wolfe10

OK, main still not raised-- please explain how he/they could not broad reach toward their destination (given conditions on Ventusky at the time)?


Psychological issues with fatigue-- sure.

My guess is they had zero idea how to sail. The headsail may not have been deployed intentionally. A line breaking or a failure of a jammer would allow it to unfurl and destroy itself.

If the only thing they knew was motoring then once the motor became disabled (likely due not to overheating but rather a line around the prop) then it was time to abandon ship like any other motorboat in a storm without ability or skill to restore propulsion.

Pretty sure even an ASA 101 course and a slightly less arrogant navigation plan to follow the coast could have prevented this.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You are way too nice. The non diligent ones stick a coax cable in a connector without any soldering/crimping and call it good.

You mean there’s another way?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Governments [& Forum owners/administrators] create rules.
But, what rules are necessary or desirable?
That is open to question [a political discussion - not normally permitted on the Cruisers Forum], and different governments have, certainly, created a wide variety of rules.

I’d suggest that, in general, one purpose of a government is to protect its people, and keep society safe.
The government's role also includes keeping society organized.
A government must be able to maintain order and stability.
If a government fails to do these things, a society will fall into chaos, and its people will suffer.

Though the rules and responsibilities may vary greatly, through time and place, governments must create them.
Governments provide the parameters, for everyday behaviour for citizens, protect them from outside interference, and often provide for their well-being and happiness.

No, that is wrong. It is a tyranny when governments make the rules, they do not. The people make the rules and the governments are the administrators to aid the people for public tasks, like building roads.

In the USA the rule makers are the people’s representatives.

[rslifkin]

[Redacted.]

Getting back to this particular situation, I'd love to see boater safety courses expanded into something more useful. Most of us here should have no problem passing the test and wouldn't find it particularly intrusive, but for some of the idiots out there, it would force them to realize just how much they don't know. The current tests are mostly a waste of time and paperwork. Good idea, but they just don't cover enough of the important things someone needs to know to actually use a boat (especially beyond a trailered one on a small lake).

[paul.devalier]

I am curious about what questions are part of boater safety courses. Here follows some of the required knowledge and questions of the Italian license exam for a sailboat within 12 miles of the coast (national waters).

- What are the day shapes for a fishing vessel engaged in fishing?
- A boat while motoring can notify passage to port by what acoustic signal?
- What effect do liquid cargo have on the boat?
- If a hull experiences a heeling, does the center of buoyancy remain fixed or does it move? If it moves, in which direction?
- Which type of prop has the least effect when in reverse? Fixed folding or orientable?
- What is effective velocity (Ve)
- What security and safety apparatus are required within 6 miles from the coast?
- What do the following lights represent at night : two stacked red lights a white light to port and a lower white light to starboard?
- Which of these situations risks collision? The polar angle remains unchanged while distance diminishes? The polar angle changes while distance diminishes? The other boat's angle diminishes abaft?
- What lies ahead if you see three lights up high and abaft of those three other lights?
- What is implied by a day shape of three balls in a triangle?
- A ship emits 4 short horns. What are they communicating?
- What is the name of the wind that blows from 135 degrees? What are the characteristics of that wind?
- On navigation charts, What does the symbol composed of a plus sign with each corner including a square dot represent?
- What is a C class fire and how do you deal with it?
- The violence of a storm is best predicted by the season, the thermal gradient or the development of the vertical cloud column?

A navigation on chart by traditional method is also part of the theoretical exam. In the physical exam, a tack and a gybe, holding course within 5 degrees and a man overboard exercise can be part of the exam.

These are just samples and without the basic license from passing these tests it is illegal to skipper a large sailboat.

There's education and then there is education. I for one am glad our government makes this knowledge a legal requirement. It doesn't stop Tom foolery. But it sure does reduce it.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by paul.devalier

I am curious about what questions are part of boater safety courses. Here follows some of the required knowledge and questions of the Italian license exam for a sailboat within 12 miles of the coast (national waters).
...

The US state boat tests I have seen are very basic. But the tests are aimed at boaters on lakes and inland waters. Heck, even in Florida, I suspect most boaters never go offshore. The most salt water they will be boating will be in the Intercoastal Waterway. Most of the boaters are in small power boats not sail boats.

[davil]

[QUOTE=Statistical;3911748]Are you watching the same video? T
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yes,I am looking at the same link, I agree that the sea seems quite calm at the time of the rescue.

However, days before, the conditions seemed to be different and more likely described as “rough”.

More likely, they never reached a serious threat or survival conditions to a sailor with experience.

that was not the case.


I tend to read these events trying to learn from them, what will I do differently, and most important how not to get caught in them,

.
My post #35 is an example of my thinking

It is a pity to see otherwise boats with an intact hull abandoned