Sailboat washes ashore on Pensacola Beach

[Statistical]

yes,I am looking at the same link, I agree that the sea seems quite calm at the time of the rescue.

However, days before, the conditions seemed to be different and more likely described as “rough”.

I would add that contrary the OP assertion in the interview that the forecast was clear he posted on facebook that they were leaving and the weather was "spicy" so pray for them.

Most at rescues are not the result of one bad decision but many compounding until the situation becomes untenable. In this case the bad decisions started before leaving the dock. The decision to embark on a 5+ day overnight trip without stops, leaving without proper training, and leaving despite weather being "spicy" set things into motion from the moment the boat left the dock.

[davil]

Originally Posted by Statistical

I would add that contrary the OP assertion in the interview that the forecast was clear he posted on facebook that they were leaving and the weather was "spicy" so pray for them.

Most at rescues are not the result of one bad decision but many compounding until the situation becomes untenable. In this case the bad decisions started before leaving the dock. The decision to embark on a 5+ day overnight trip without stops, leaving without proper training, and leaving despite weather being "spicy" set things into motion from the moment the boat left the dock.

[lifeofreilly57]

Not totally connected to this particular situation, but relevant.
we were in the caribbean during covid, the number of newbies buying large yachts site unseen then flying in to live aboard had me quite concerned.
Most had little or no sailing experience, the most common answer was they took a weekend sailing course.
Most Caribbean sailing is pretty easy, til a squall pops up. If your an experienced sailor, no issue, reef, put on rain gear, sail along, because of course your already have your harness and lifelines in place. Better if you have a lifejacket on.
I overheard a sales person for a boat manufacturer answer a couples question as to their ability to handle a 40 foot cruising boat despite the fact they had no sailing experience, his answer was "of course you can, you'll just need a little time. No mention of taking courses, maybe sailing with experienced sailors, of trying a smaller boat first, nope, that 40 foot cruising yacht would be a fine beginner boat.
It usually doesn't end well in those situations.
Even here in New England I've had to talk people through a small squall over the radio when thy were freeking out.
I try to give people common sense advise, but have found common sense is not so common. Better to give new sailors honest advice so they stick around to become long term sailors.

[JPA Cate]

I try to give people common sense advise, but have found common sense is not so common. Better to give new sailors honest advice so they stick around to become long term sailors.

Good on ya for talking those guys through a squall. It's a real pleasure to hear someone do that.

Thank you.

Ann

[Don C L]

Looks like a nice boat with no damage except to the sail. Do boats really need to end up on beaches? If I ever have to abandon my boat, and I want a shot at retrieving her, I'm lowering the anchor and all the rode I got before I leave. She'll snag something eventually. I had a friend who had a Cal 40 that dragged the anchor into deep water (while he was away from the boat) and then drifted on down the coast a few miles until she found shallow water again. And there she waited patiently until he retrieved her.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Looks like a nice boat with no damage except to the sail. Do boats really need to end up on beaches? If I ever have to abandon my boat, and I want a shot at retrieving her, I'm lowering the anchor and all the rode I got before I leave. She'll snag something eventually. I had a friend who had a Cal 40 that dragged the anchor into deep water (while he was away from the boat) and then drifted on down the coast a few miles until she found shallow water again. And there she waited patiently until he retrieved her.

I can confirm that this works.

A fellow CF member had to drive me a fair way to retrieve my boat after she went walkabout. I’d misread the anchor chain markers and anchored with a 2:1 scope. My boat went for a wander and she sensibly anchored herself a few miles down river with a 3:1 scope.

Certainly a case of the boat being smarter than the owner.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I've always been stymied by the fact that if you've got the money, you can buy any boat you want, no experience required, no tests, no license, nuthin'...

I consider my right to float, the same way as those on the other side of the pond, think of their right to carry guns.

I would like a gun too, but a boat is my right.

Having said that I saw a perfectly good sail boat towed into a mooring field, at the weekend with the wind and tide in favourable directions, I would refuse to help someone with working sails unless it was for close quarter manoeuvres.

[Wallaby]

Originally Posted by boatman61

"
Maybe he abandoned because his forestay ripped up the foredeck.. looks pretty grim in the picture.

I don't think the foredeck is damaged. The dark blue is Sunbrella on the bottom of the genoa. It looks like the sail split down the middle with some still in the furler track.



Other than the genoa and the solar panels (and bimini), the rest looks intact with mainsail in stack-pak. Mast shrouds look tight. Rudder seems normal, but it is also possible the shaft has ripped up the inside of the blade--very hard to tell from the photo. Keel buried in sand? There may be a line tangled on the prop.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by VChild

I saw the posts above, but they describe the recent weather due to tropical storm Alberto, when the boat finally reached Pensacola. However, in posts by the owner back on June 3rd, shortly after the boat was abandoned, he described battling 20ft seas in the Gulf of Mexico. I usually follow the Gulf weather pretty closely and maybe I missed something, but I don’t recall anything like that at the end of May or beginning of June. I also couldn’t find any evidence of that in the historical data from National Data Buoy Center. Maybe a severe isolated squall that kicked up? Twenty foot waves in the Gulf, from an isolated squall, would be impressive.

Have to question the need to abandoned, the boat was obviously seaworthy as it made it to shore.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

Have to question the need to abandoned, the boat was obviously seaworthy as it made it to shore.

Pretty sure the captain had no idea how to sail. Not minimal understand but nothing. Not an ASA 101 course, not an introductory daysail, not watching some education youtube videos.

So he owned a motorboat with a silly stick in the middle sticking up. When he lost the motor and could not restore it that is a reason to abandon ship in a motorboat with only one means of propulsion.

[capn_billl]

The insurance is a consideration.

Here is the problem. There are less boaters than cars.

Insurance only works with large numbers of insured.

As a consequence marine insurers use the big tent approach.

Having a USCG license or boating safety course only gets you a token discount. ($50.)

Actuaries react more than act.

The credit card captains only go out on holidays a couple times a year and are low risk compared to a circumnavigater with 30 years of experience.

Experience and skill don't prevent unmarked obstacles or unpredicted severe weather or critical failure in rough conditions.

I'm getting rudder repair because I ran into a sunken T top in 8 ft of water. (It might have been a car).

Another boat needed extensive repair after an incompetent boater ran into them while they were tier at a mooring ball and in town.

Another mega yacht had a mooring ball break and ended up on the beach.

Experience wouldn't have helped in any of these.

Any licensing would have to come from major insurance companies.

So far we DO have licensing and insurance companies don't care.

Last year several billion dollars of boats were destroyed by a hurricane. Mine survived but I took extraordinary measures to protect it. Even with those measures bad luck could have negated them.

We could form an insurance company that only insured expert sailors that own classic blue water sailing craft, but it wouldn't be any cheaper and likely way more expensive than Geiko or Lords of London

[Sdpaddler50]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I've always been stymied by the fact that if you've got the money, you can buy any boat you want, no experience required, no tests, no license, nuthin'...

This guy was from San Diego. He had a Captain take the boat to Mexico for him last year. This is how his boat ended up the one day he was driving (no Captain on board) and anchored overnight, reportedly in an area he was not supposed to be in. Big bank account, not much prior experience, 55 ft boat. Now we all get to help pay for it with our insurance premiums.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Have you seen how they drive cars in FL?

While I'm a firm believer in operator training for boats (and have taught those classes) I'm leery of a license requirement.

—————

Too bad most states allow on-line classes, which of course means the people who need it the most simply get someone else to go on line for them.

I agree on this premise. Basic rules do the road could easily be combined into a hands on show me how to operate your boat with an instructor. For a certain size and/or power and above vessel this could be very useful. An on-line test is rules only but doesn’t test situational awareness, planning, skill. We noted while on the Great Lakes that all that was required to own and operate any boat, especially big power yachts was a big wallet. No experience required.

[lestersails]

"We then lost our headsail from a wild wind shift followed shortly by the engine." So, does that mean a plausible scenario is that a jib sheet parted, went overboard, then they put her in gear, wrapped it on the prop and killed the engine? I am guessing that Ann's admonition about checking for lines over the side and waiting til her mast was well sunken are because she suspects the same?
I can readily appreciate that even a moderately experienced captain could reach for that ignition key/shift lever more quickly than they should.
That doesn't negate any of your criticisms of failing to put up a double reefed main (with its very helpful weather helm). But then I wonder about getting some main up re the difficulty of getting her bow into the wind. Or why not use a drogue in this scenario?
I do not have a lot of heavy weather experience, as do some of you, so I always like to game these out to practice the necessary problem solving skills.

[LeGe]

Originally Posted by Leadfree

Another reason to require training and licensing for boat operation. Y’know, like they do for automobiles. Not a complete panacea, but there is virtually no such requirement in most of the US and certainly not in FL

Do you really, in your heart believe this? Give more power to bureaucrats and all is good? Has it ever made a positive difference to give bureaucrats more power?