sailing lessons or self teach?

[singlespeed]

Do yourself and every other boater in your marina a favor and take sailing lessons, preferably on your own boat. It will surprise you and irritate your neighboring slip holders how fast things can go south, especially when docking. Instructors will also teach you basic right-of-way and simple courtesies of marina and boating life, that may prevent costly mistakes.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by boatman61

See if you can hire an instructor for a day to take you through from departure to return.. you do what he says.
After that and solo it's the repetition builds speed and confidence.

I beg to differ...
There is much more to sailing, and there is much to learn that instruction will get you there and solo sailing without basic knowledge is invitation for disaster.
What would you do if the engine stalls suddenly?
The best way is to go to a basic (yacht) sailing course, or, if you have a knowledgeable friend, take him on as personal instructor.
You need basic training: sail trimming, weather forecast reading, anchoring, some engine problem solving, getting in and out of berth in different wind/current situation, basic navigation/instruments use.
Then and only then you can learn by sailing and gaining experience.
And you will continue to learn all life.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by meirriba

I beg to differ...
There is much more to sailing, and there is much to learn that instruction will get you there and solo sailing without basic knowledge is invitation for disaster.
What would you do if the engine stalls suddenly?
The best way is to go to a basic (yacht) sailing course, or, if you have a knowledgeable friend, take him on as personal instructor.
You need basic training: sail trimming, weather forecast reading, anchoring, some engine problem solving, getting in and out of berth in different wind/current situation, basic navigation/instruments use.
Then and only then you can learn by sailing and gaining experience.
And you will continue to learn all life.

This is why it's best to learn on your own with a sailboat without an engine.

Then start racing......as Skipper.

[DEAN2140]

I disagree that going on a race is the best way to learn. During a race, you will generally be given a specific assignment and as a novice it will be a mundane one. Things happen quickly during a race, especially at mark roundings and starts and you won't have the opportunity to observe how other crew positions operate. Finally, there is tension during a race and a foul up by you will not be met with indulgent smiles.

My advice? Take a sailing course. There are innumerable little things to know that won't get taught or piicked up by your sailing buddy. For example, I went out with a friend on his Catalina 22 and anchored for lunch. When it was time to leave, he raised the main without uncleating the mainsheet and a gust knocked the boat over and water flooded the main cabin to the point that the interior cushions were floating in the bay. If I hadn't spotted the problem and released the sheet the boat would have gone down. Spend the money and take the course. You will avoid lots of trauma that may dissuade you from sailing.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

I disagree that going on a race is the best way to learn. During a race, you will generally be given a specific assignment and as a novice it will be a mundane one. Things happen quickly during a race, especially at mark roundings and starts and you won't have the opportunity to observe how other crew positions operate. Finally, there is tension during a race and a foul up by you will not be met with indulgent smiles.
...

Dean2140, Please let me respond to your comment about crewing on a race boat.

First, I'd guess you were not enthralled by your experiences on a race boat. I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you'll give it another chance.

Will a newbie be given a mundane and specific task? Yes. Will that be a bad thing? No. It will be an assignment which matches his skill set. There is satisfaction to be gained by mastering a task, however simple. As the new crew member gains experience he/she will be given other tasks, usually more technical. As these skills are also mastered his/her skill set and overall knowledge of how to operate the boat increases. One of the beauties of being on a racing crew is that they often race frequently, so you will have many opportunities to learn and grow. Repetition is a good way to really internalize a skill.

Things do happen fast. A new crew member won't catch all the subtleties on the first mark rounding, but after a few races it will start to come together for him/her. And one hopes that the skipper or crew boss will go through the steps before complex evolutions occur. And another good thing about racing is that many different situations will occur over the course of a season, many more than can be covered in a set of lessons.

As for "tension" and "foul-ups". Every racing crew makes mistakes. Good skippers know that and they also know that training and post race debriefing are the way to improve performance and avoid future mistakes, not YELLING. Boat where YELLING occurs are not fun and learning does not occur in those situations. If you are on a boat like that it is time to move on. But one thing to remember, even if you didn't like it, it was experience and the next time you approach a skipper you will have some under your belt.

Finally, Teamwork and camaraderie. Being part of a race crew means being on a team. As the team begins to click there is a real good feeling. When each person does their job in synch with the others and the boat just works, it is a great feeling. The best feeling you can get is when you all worked together and you know you did your best, regardless of whether or not you won the race. When you all become mates this crew will stick together and be mates for life.

A final note: You don't go for one race. You join for the whole season. What you learn in that season you could not buy from any sailing school. That does not mean don't take lessons, or "self teach" on your own boat. You can get more out of a whole package.

[Adelie]

Welcome.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.

[rramsden]

It's worth it to take the basic keel boat from ASA or US sailing. Because of the navigation it teaches, the bare boat is worth it as well.
I took both of those courses, crewed on many sails, including crossing the Atlantic. Before buying my boat.
There's always a lot to learn.

[dannc]

There is RACING and then there is racing.

I have zero interest in sports. Don't like 'em. Don't follow 'em. Could care less about sports in any way shape or form. Waste of time and life as far as I am concerned.

Getting on a boat to go RACING has zero interest for us.

We have been invited several times to crew on a boat to go racing which we would like to do because this is just a group of people and boats who want to go sailing. The race is just an excuse to get out on the boat. Sounds like fun to us but we have not had the time to go.

We learn something new every time we are on a boat. If we don't learn something new while racing it would be shocking.

Later,
Dan

[wolfgal]

maybe i should have started, like you, with actually buying the boat...

over the years, i've read, completed courses and passed tests and jumped through all kinds of hoops in two languages. but, now - as i'm still boatless and haven't found a way to get regular practice, it almost feels like i went through all that (and paid through the nose, obviously) in vain. i'm finding that, at the end of the day, since i haven't been consistently applying what i was learning on a regular basis, all i've really got is a bunch of diplomas/certificates, etc.

when i do get the boat, of course i'll have an advantage over many beginners (especially in boat systems and fixing, as this is where i've got more hands-on experience), but i'm planning on hiring someone (a non-yelling, calm, and experienced sailing instructor, probably RYA as i'm europe) to walk me through it all as though i was a complete noob, so to resurface those vague memories (without pressure) and put them practice and into experience ... while feeling good about it.

and yes, i think that those here, who have mentioned repetition, are absolutely right. for instance, practicing docking over and over and over before actually taking the boat out might help you get a certain level of confidence, and with that, enjoyment.

so, like many here, i recommend that you do the learning from excellent sailors/teachers/books, cause there's quite a bit to know and do properly/safely. and all the while (and as you've got the boat, you can), do apply it, use it, build on it, ask questions, watch others, solve problems and smile as you become a sailor. sailing is truly wonderful!

also, it really helps if you find community, folks with boats, people you can help out and visa versa. there is much strength and support and goodwill that emanates from trust-filled interaction and friendship in the world of sailors. time and time again, i've marvelled at how even poor sailors (financially poor) are very rich people (in terms of quality of human interaction).

in any case, good luck to you!

wolfie

[Mara Mae]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

Do yourself and every other boater in your marina a favor and take sailing lessons, preferably on your own boat. It will surprise you and irritate your neighboring slip holders how fast things can go south, especially when docking. Instructors will also teach you basic right-of-way and simple courtesies of marina and boating life, that may prevent costly mistakes.

Respectfully disagree. It comes down to effective risk management. For example, use a mooring rather than a slip while you gain experience. And/Or, ask for a slip at the end of the pier until you are safe to negotiate between boats. And/Or, don't go out in wind above 5 kts, then 10kts max. Gradually work your way up. The key is comfort zone and decision making. If you want to do lessons don't do 5 day sequential programs. Do 1 day a week or month for 5 weeks or 5 months. This provides more opportunity for varied conditions. If you feel apprehensive about a manoeuvre then don't do it until you are not. On a no wind day practice anchoring by gunk holing somewhere. While there practice using prop walk to turn. I find most practical sailing programs are really to achieve the certification level and are not effective in teaching the content required to obtain the level be it RYA Day Skipper or Yachtmaster Ocean. In sum, sail to learn, take lessons to get certified.

[eddhewett]

Congratulations on your new boat! A good choice for your first boat.
If you do decide to go for sailing courses, and you opt for the RYA scheme, you can take the theory courses online which might be a cheap and convenient option for you.

Can you really learn to sail online?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This is why it's best to learn on your own with a sailboat without an engine.

Then start racing......as Skipper.

Racing is NOT a good way to learn to sail. Racing teaches you about racing.

The best way is basic instruction followed by experience , then perhaps more advanced instruction followed by more experience. That experience can be aided by racing as crew , doing deliveries ( good for heavy weather experience ) etc. Once you have the basics any further sailing adds to your experience store and you know enough to differentiate what good stuff you learned from the bad stuff.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Mara Mae

Respectfully disagree. It comes down to effective risk management. For example, use a mooring rather than a slip while you gain experience. And/Or, ask for a slip at the end of the pier until you are safe to negotiate between boats. And/Or, don't go out in wind above 5 kts, then 10kts max. Gradually work your way up. The key is comfort zone and decision making. If you want to do lessons don't do 5 day sequential programs. Do 1 day a week or month for 5 weeks or 5 months. This provides more opportunity for varied conditions. If you feel apprehensive about a manoeuvre then don't do it until you are not. On a no wind day practice anchoring by gunk holing somewhere. While there practice using prop walk to turn. I find most practical sailing programs are really to achieve the certification level and are not effective in teaching the content required to obtain the level be it RYA Day Skipper or Yachtmaster Ocean. In sum, sail to learn, take lessons to get certified.

Nope. Firstly in many cases you will be on a marina in an assigned spot , no choices.

Secondly if you wait for 5kts or less you could be waiting forever

The value in on-water training like Day skipper and Coastal skipper is that you spend considerable time practising with an expert things that you may not ( will not) get right with knowledge. Sailing of an anchor , good manoeuvring techniques. Good sail trim , Etc.

Proper practical training is invaluable

Then of course you go away and try out all these new found skills , maybe you do day skipper practical and then cone back a couple of years later and do coastal skipper

Whiling away the winter try a shore based navigation course , to teach you chart skills dealing with tides and so forth.

RYA Yachtmaster is not a course it’s an exam on your boat with an Rya examiner , there is no official RYA Yachtmaster course ,you cannot do a “ course” to get RYA Yachtmaster

I’ve met too many self taught “ sailors “ of considerable age that knew little about sail trim or couldn’t do tidal calculations or one chap who couldn’t actually interpret admiralty charts correctly.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Racing is NOT a good way to learn to sail. Racing teaches you about racing.

The best way is basic instruction followed by experience , then perhaps more advanced instruction followed by more experience. That experience can be aided by racing as crew , doing deliveries ( good for heavy weather experience ) etc. Once you have the basics any further sailing adds to your experience store and you know enough to differentiate what good stuff you learned from the bad stuff.

Actually racing especially beach cats teaches you all about sailing from holding the boat still for minutes at a time on the starting line within a couple feet of the boat next to you, to sail trim, to tacking and gybing and handing a spinnaker, also how to "park" the boat during a break in races to relax for a bit.

Also with beach cats you receive reinforcement if you screwup because most likely you will be going for a swim when the boat pitchpoles or flips.

That also teaches you a few things because the most the boat heels over the less wind in the sails so after a while you learn just because you are at 60 degrees of heel doesn't mean you can't save it

This helps later on a monohull with good ballast. I don't even worry when my Bristol is waay over due to it's ballast. As it heels further there is less wind in the sails to continue the heel

Point is if you can handle one of these you can sail just about anything.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nacra-17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehYM0RfyyU

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually racing especially beach cats teaches you all about sailing from holding the boat still for minutes at a time on the starting line within a couple feet of the boat next to you, to sail trim, to tacking and gybing and handing a spinnaker, also how to "park" the boat during a break in races to relax for a bit.

Also with beach cats you receive reinforcement if you screwup because most likely you will be going for a swim when the boat pitchpoles or flips.

That also teaches you a few things because the most the boat heels over the less wind in the sails so after a while you learn just because you are at 60 degrees of heel doesn't mean you can't save it

This helps later on a monohull with good ballast. I don't even worry when my Bristol is waay over due to it's ballast. As it heels further there is less wind in the sails to continue the heel

Point is if you can handle one of these you can sail just about anything.

I’m sorry , racing a dinghy is not a good way to learn to cruise a conventional cruising yacht.

There are many different things at play then just pure sail trim.

Sailing a cruiser encompasses things like passage planing , weather appreciation , crew management ,provisioning , manoeuvring under power and sail etc etc. Yes and actually sailing too !!

An unintentional gybe in a small dinghy might put you in the water , on a bigger yacht you could take the mast out or kill someone.