Sailing on jib alone

[Adelie]

With a big Genoa there is plenty of sail aft to balance sail forward so the boat doesn’t get way out of balance.

[Hasbeen]

I once sailed from Honiara, Guadalcanal, Solomon Islands, to Cairns Oz a bit over 1100 nautical miles under 146 Sq ft jib after the first 40 miles in 6 days, averaged 7.6 knots for the passage, with the boat steering by wind vane all the way, apart for the great barrier reef entrance.



It was a bit windy & a bit rough. My main interest was in slowing the boat, so the jib was considerably over sheeted while sailing at about 60 degrees apparent.



I have also made passages in the trades under main only, both to windward & down wind. My boat, a Morgan Giles designed 40 footer was very easily driven & very fast. On passage it was always a matter of making the boat comfortable, rather that having to achieve speed.


With a good hull shape sail balance is not critical. It only becomes critical with fine entry big buoyant stern type boats, designed to support a crew of half a dozen in an aft cockpit. People who cruise such boats are in my opinion, heroes.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

thomm,

What you say is right--sometimes--and wrong--sometimes. It MIGHT be right always on YOUR boat, but it is not always right for all boats and all sails in all conditions.

By way of example, I taught sailing for many years. In some of our advanced classes we practiced sailing J-24's with headsails only. In light winds, a J-24 under genoa alone generates huge leehelm, just as you describe. Right up to the point of being totally unable to tack without REALLY good timing.

But let the wind pick up a bit and the boat start to heel, the exact same boat and sail now generates significant weather helm, and can generate a LOT of it.

I watched one boat racing upwind with full genoa up and in a gust they started to round up into the boat next to them. The skipper blew the mainsheet, just as he should, but the boat continued to round up into a collision.

If you were always right in your description of jib only sailing, what I just described could not happen.

I haven't sailed a J-24 so I have to go on my own experiences.

I have even left my spinnaker up for a few yards after rounding the downwind mark and heading back to windward for a few yards......wind was super light though. This while I was getting my boards back down all the way

Generally speaking though the main sail turns the boat to windward and the jib off the wind as you sheet and un-sheet them.

On any sloop rigged boat (main and jib only) if you lash the rudder centered and steer with the sails only, the mainsail will turn the boat into the wind when sheeted and the jib eased a bit and vise a versa. The jib when sheeted will move the bow off the wind.

It's sort of how sheet to tiller systems works.

Other boats may perform slightly different but they will all respond as above. Each boat may need to be set a little different but the basics are the same.

Another thing to consider is this. There have been quite a few sailboats built that are main only. That is mainsail only.

I have never seen one built to sail with jib only. (as in having no mainsail) My last beach cat that I raced was main only and spinnaker and was raced single handed.

I did buy the optional jib but you could only use it during PHRF Distance racing not one design buoy racing

That boat later became the Nacra 17 used in the Olympics. A jib was added later, more streamline spinnaker chute sock, wave piercing hulls, and lifting daggerboards.

The photos are of the old version and the new version is on display in the video. I bought the old version new in around 2002. It also had a carbon fiber mast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQDt7svQIxM

[thomm225]

And just a slight thread drift.

Some of the female Drivers/Skippers on the boats in the video above are in terrific shape.

The girl driving #2 seems quite at ease on the tiller while trapped out..

You can even see her ease the main just a bit to go down on another boat then sheet back in as she turns back up. Two separate shots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9fzo6m0T08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZ-kp-Rg5A

[AKA-None]

My little c&c loves it’s jib

[thomm225]

Jibs are nice to have, but you can point better with the main.

Both sails working together is even better and a much more efficient way to sail.

Here is one of the other boats I had sailing main only at around 19 knots.

It's a Nacra 6.0 and a beast of a beach cat. It will work you.

I used to sail one back from Pensacola Beach in the evening trapped out on a close reach with main and jib. The leeward hull all but maybe an inch under water.

It sailed like it was on rails slicing through the water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OWpEFoGWFc

[Welti]

I'm not sailing all the way into the slip. Just generally raising and dropping sail in the open part of the harbor, outside the slip area, and using "egg beater" and autopilot to stay oriented upwind. I usually pop the sail(s) and then motor/sail out the harbor.

Topping lift is proper lift. Dyneema. Looks impossibly small to hold the load of the boom!

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Welti:

It sounds like you are trying to SAIL all the way into your slip. Why would you do that? Sensible people in tight marinas MOTOR (UGH!) in. Sensible marinas even insist that people do that :-)!

As for lowering the main, have you got a proper running topping lift, or do you just have a "rat tail" hanging from the backstay? Or does the boom just drop down like on a dinghy?

Lapworth designed this little boat as a "hybrid" kinda thing, one that was mainly racing dinghy blown up 175%, but with enuff accommodation for weekend camping. In consequence, the boat will give you the most sailing pleasure if you sail her like you would a dinghy. But there is no rule against making your life easier by fitting a proper running backstay. Or even against having an inboard engine, although I dare say many were fitted with a 9.9 horse "egg beater" on the transom.

The boat will actually sail on her main alone, so if you do have to sail into your marina for want of an engine, do try dropping that god-awfully huge headsail first, and then sailing in on the main. There will be times when the wind is in such a quarter that you cannot sail in on either sail. That's what "egg beaters" are for :-)!

All the best,

TrentePieds

[Lee Jerry]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Generally speaking though the main sail turns the boat to windward and the jib off the wind as you sheet and un-sheet them.

On any sloop rigged boat (main and jib only) if you lash the rudder centered and steer with the sails only, the mainsail will turn the boat into the wind when sheeted and the jib eased a bit and vise a versa. The jib when sheeted will move the bow off the wind.

It's sort of how sheet to tiller systems works.

No, they don’t work the same at all.

Steering with the sails is altering the positional relationship between the aerodynamic center of effort and the center of lateral resistance to cause the boat to turn. This can be done with either changing sail trim or the attitude (trim) of the boat. See Lasers.

Sheet-to-tiller steering uses the movement of the headsail (usually) resulting from changing wind angle or speed to move the tiller / rudder to steer the boat in the desired direction.

See how that’s not the same?

Originally Posted by thomm225

And just a slight thread drift.

Some of the female Drivers/Skippers on the boats in the video above are in terrific shape.

The girl driving #2 seems quite at ease on the tiller while trapped out.

You’re surprised that athletes competing at the top of their sport are fit and comfortable doing tasks integral and standard to that sport?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

No, they don’t work the same at all.

Sheet-to-tiller steering uses the movement of the headsail (usually) resulting from changing wind angle or speed to move the tiller / rudder to steer the boat in the desired direction.

You’re surprised that athletes competing at the top of their sport are fit and comfortable doing tasks integral and standard to that sport?

I said sheet to tiller was sort of the same.

I thought folks would make the connection without going in detail, but I guess that was to much to expect.

You even had it in Bold but still didn't get it!?

As far as the athletes being in shape, of course I'm not surprised since I sailed basically the same boat except I sailed it singled handed and besides 50-100 or so buoy races I did two 100 mile races on it also single handed.

That will keep you in pretty good shape especially if you enjoy distance running when not sailing as I do.

We just didn't have as many Female Skippers back then.

I had one female crew member that was totally ripped back in the day though.

She was my Nacra 6.0 crew.

I think she was around 38 or so then. I met her at the gym

Photo is of her in her 60's. She was 5'9" or so and like 140-145 lbs. back when she was crew

[TrentePieds]

Alright then, since you have the eggbeater :-)

What I would o in YOUR make of boat, is run her head to wind while I still have plenty of sea room. Then, when both sails are luffing, I'd smartly drop the jib. If she's a roller furler, just roll her all the way in. Doesn't matter if it's an 80% an 100% or a 150% headsail, I'd drop it first. If you sail is a "hank-on" and you are comfortable going on deck, just pop forward and quickly secure it by lashing it to the pulpit and stanchions. I always carry short lengths of line in my pocket for such tasks. In sailorspeak these bits of line are called "gaskets".

Now you can sail on the main alone if you must sail. Not well, but you can sail. Then at a convenient place I'd fire up the eggbeater but leave it in neutral. The I'd totten the topping lift so the boom end is a foot or so above normal. Then I'd start the halyard and pull the main down by the luff. Now the main would be lying about all over the deck and the cockpit. Starting from the mast end I'd gather up the bunt of the sail (the "middle" of it) and quickly, using the gaskets from my pocket, lash it to the boom.

The boat will have drifted a few lengths while you do this, but just make allowance for that in choosing the place to do it.

Now you can motor into your slip and tidy up on deck, not forgetting to "cheese" down the ends of your mooring lines :-)

Remember, it doesn't matter how you skin the cat, as long as you skin it :-)!

TrentePieds

[Lee Jerry]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I said sheet to tiller was sort of the same. You even had it in Bold but still didn''t get it!?

I thought folks would make the connection without going in detail, but I guess that was to much to expect.

Well, you lost me.

One is using the rudder to steer the boat; the other is intentionally NOT using the rudder to steer the boat. What part is the same?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

Well, you lost me.

One is using the rudder to steer the boat; the other is intentionally NOT using the rudder to steer the boat. What part is the same?

Sort of the same.........

From a sheet to tiller write up......

The jib will pull the bow off the wind, and the mainsail and the bungee cords are going to be pulling it up. You might need to ease or tighten the mainsheet. You might need only one bungee cord. In strong wind..........

I was making the point earlier about how the jib moves the bow off the wind while the main directs it closer to the wind when sheeted or more up.......

Just continuing to make the point that the best sail for upwind is the main and /or main and jib.

You can use the jib alone, but you won't point as well

[Welti]

Are you talking about dousing sails before I get back to harbor? I have wondered if in moderate to small winds it might be easier to just do it before getting in the confines of the harbor? At least I don't have to be running back and forth from mast to tiller, correcting course and avoiding obstacles ( we have a lot of those paddle boats noodling around the harbor).

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Alright then, since you have the eggbeater :-)

What I would o in YOUR make of boat, is run her head to wind while I still have plenty of sea room. Then, when both sails are luffing, I'd smartly drop the jib. If she's a roller furler, just roll her all the way in. Doesn't matter if it's an 80% an 100% or a 150% headsail, I'd drop it first. If you sail is a "hank-on" and you are comfortable going on deck, just pop forward and quickly secure it by lashing it to the pulpit and stanchions. I always carry short lengths of line in my pocket for such tasks. In sailorspeak these bits of line are called "gaskets".

Now you can sail on the main alone if you must sail. Not well, but you can sail. Then at a convenient place I'd fire up the eggbeater but leave it in neutral. The I'd totten the topping lift so the boom end is a foot or so above normal. Then I'd start the halyard and pull the main down by the luff. Now the main would be lying about all over the deck and the cockpit. Starting from the mast end I'd gather up the bunt of the sail (the "middle" of it) and quickly, using the gaskets from my pocket, lash it to the boom.

The boat will have drifted a few lengths while you do this, but just make allowance for that in choosing the place to do it.

Now you can motor into your slip and tidy up on deck, not forgetting to "cheese" down the ends of your mooring lines :-)

Remember, it doesn't matter how you skin the cat, as long as you skin it :-)!

TrentePieds

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Welti

Thanks for such copious and useful information! I'm glad there are no issues.

For my boat it is around 180 sqft jib to 133 sqft for the main, so more like the "newer" design I guess.

Putting up the main is not an issue but getting it down and contained when single handing is a bit of a challenge for me so far. I am using just around 4 sail ties, and heading up wind in a smallish nook of the harbor where I can point upwind and minimal traffic - using autopilot but still makes me nervous because there's not a lot of room to maneuver. Thinking about adding lazy jacks or even just a different method for quickly getting the sail contained and out of the way 'till I can get to the slip and put 'er away properly.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cal-2-25/

When singlehanding, drop the main quickly, and just fold the luff of the sail between slides as it comes down. If the sail is new and crinkly it will want to do this on its own. Let the sail fall off the boom all on one side. Then clean it up and flake it on the boom after you are moored in the slip.

To flake it start at the clew of the sail, grab a fold, and lift it onto the boom, then the next fold, etc.

Even if you have 2 people, It is much easier and faster to flake it to let it all fall to one side then pick it up to flake than it is to do it while its coming down in a more orderly way.

[wingssail]

I wouldn't normally sail with just a jib. In fact I've had a rule that goes like this: "If the boat is sailing the main is up, period"

That is because my boat is more efficient and balanced with a main, even with just a main.

But rules are meant to be broken, someone said.

So recently we were sailing upwind in very heavy weather and unfortunately had the racing main up, with a small jib. The racing main is huge and has only one reef point. We were terribly overpowered.

For the first time ever I dropped the main and left up the jib (and that was a sporty adventure in itself).

Then in 29 knots of true wind we sailed on quite nicely. Boat speed was not reduced nor was our sailing angle. Even the rudder was not fussed; we had a little bit of lee helm but the Monitor handled it fine.

So if you have a good reason, don't be afraid to break a rule and sail with just the jib.