Sailing upwind

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah, that's a pretty calm sea there in that video. And they had a following sea there when they hit 13 knots. That does look like a really nice day of sailing, if not a bit cold. That's not the conditions folks are thinking of when they groan at the thought of upwind.

The location is in the sound up in Seattle. Which is why they're quickly freezing to death as we watch. If you watch carefully, you can see they're about ready to set the spare sails on fire just to stay warm.

It's true that they're in sheltered waters but like I said; why is it that the very first iteration of why someone doesn't sail upwind always seems to involve hurricane force winds and towering seas?

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

The location is in the sound up in Seattle. Which is why they're quickly freezing to death as we watch. If you watch carefully, you can see they're about ready to set the spare sails on fire just to stay warm.

It's true that they're in sheltered waters but like I said; why is it that the very first iteration of why someone doesn't sail upwind always seems to involve hurricane force winds and towering seas?

It doesn't, though. The most common scenario (described by me a few posts ago) is when someone on board doesn't have the stomach for it. You find that out on the boat, and it can happen in any conditions. And then you decide: Do I take my wife/son/significant other/parent/best pal etc etc who really wanted to go but didn't like the bouncing around, out again?

And if you do, do you temper your ambitions while they're on board, waiting for the day you can go out with Rob_P again and have some real fun?

Or do you spend your time singlehandedly carving a 37' foot, seven ton thing with 900 sq feet of sai into that by yourself?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

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why is it that the very first iteration of why someone doesn't sail upwind always seems to involve hurricane force winds and towering seas?

Have you ever wondered about the first paragraphs or chapters in books and films?

They don't work hard at doing the "quiet stuff" first, they "hit you" with the excitement to pique your interest, and only later go back to the "background" of the stories.

Another oft-repeated "true-ism" - you don't read a lot of material that's "and then we did...and then we did...and then we did...and then we did...and then we did...and then we did...and then we did...and then we did..."

Why? Because it's boring. The concept is that the author wants to get your attention. And keep it.

That's why.

I read a lot, and it's true of both fiction and non-fiction.

Good luck in your learning process.

You'll also find that the folks who are calm and cool and collected when the SHTF are the folks to trust, not the screamers.


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I sail my boat pretty much the same when either racing or cruising. Good sail trim is important in both cases. I don't break stuff either racing or cruising. I disagree with thomm about this.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Upwind sailing on a coupla nice quiet days.. sheltered waters with no ocean swell..
Great day for a play..

This is on a quiet sea sailing upwind in the ocean.. when the sea starts breaking it gets uncomfortable.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?v...JvtA2CcWgMpjuw

hmmm... is that really 30 to 40 knots?

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Don C L

hmmm... is that really 30 to 40 knots?

One of the hardest things to do on a boat, I find, is to capture on photo or video the true quantity of white caps or heights of waves as they look when they're happening around you. I'd definitely say that 30 kts is present here just from comparing it with my videos of the same.

Pictured below: < 5 kts :-)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Don C L

hmmm... is that really 30 to 40 knots?

Don't ask me I didn't shoot the video.. I was just showing what sailing in an ocean swell without waves was like as opposed to pond sailing..

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I would think most race boats would have a higher level of maintenance than a cruiser.

It's not about the maintenance; it's about the hard use.

Over stressing the rig.

Sheeting to extremes.

Heavy usage involving the above.

Unknowledgeable crew overstressing stanchions and lifelines.

Lots of people on the boat.

Sometimes collisions........

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Thomm225, that is quite a damning generalization, and I don't think it is true. Maybe that was your experience while racing your beach cats but we don't have the attitude needed to accept that abusing a boat or "do anything to win" is OK, and not many of the racers I know do either (and I've known quite a few).

I can tell you that no-one races harder than we do, but we're also careful about what we're doing. We can't afford to break things, and you need to finish the race in order to win. Finally, please recall too that this is our home.

And a boat designed to be raced is not being abused simply by sailing in a race. Even sailing in strong winds is not bad for a boat which is designed for it. I think ocean cruising is harder on a boat than typical racing and I've done a lot of both.

Anyhow, my own boat has been raced and sailed in all conditions for 42 years (since it was launched) and still remains in very sound condition. Actually, putting a load on stuff often reveals weaknesses. It's better to find them in a controlled situation than in the middle of the night in an unexpected squall on an ocean cruise.

Any boat, racer of cruiser, must be closely inspected to determine if previous use has damaged or weakened it or caused equipment to become deteriorated.

So I don't think it is fair to state "You don't want a boat that's been raced hard."

Well, I don't but others might.

I'm going by what I saw while crewing on several monohulls.

And unfortunately, the guy that bought my last racing beach cat in 2006 or 2007 said it began having lots of problems. I told him that I was sorry to hear that, but I hadn't noticed any problems with it which was true.

The boat was a 2001, and I had replace the mainsail, spinnaker, and the rigging.

I had also broken the carbon fiber mast and replaced it with a new one. I did race this boat hard though about 10 months out of the year in both distance and buoy races, and I had a job I used on it (taking the mod hit) for distances races and praying the wind didn't get much over 14 knots because as a single hander it was way over powered and I didn't have a furler

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Or do you spend your time singlehandedly carving a 37' foot, seven ton thing with 900 sq feet of sai into that by yourself?

And you don't?

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

And you don't?

40 nm? Upwind? 5-8-foot chop? Solo? Maybe.. Maybe, if I'm feeling spunky.

More-n that? nah

Bayside Betty's. Better yet: Whip up some scallops in the galley. Enjoy the Laphroaig 10-year cask-strength I learned about in the favorite drop thread. Play the guitar. Wait for the reach.

[alitaptap]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Is that the same Verde Island Passage as this one?

(sorry if this is a duplicate, I already posted it but I don't see it, What happened?)

If between Batangas (Luzon) and Mindoro Island, then yes, the very same. Almost always a tortuous upwind slog during the NE Monsoon but on that day the weather gods listened and we enjoyed the exquisite passage as described. We also won the race

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

And you don't?

But here's my bet:

>90% people on this forum, looking at this weather forecast, with no particular reason to hurry, given a choice between departing P-town (tip of Cape Cod) for Gloucester on either Tuesday or Wednesday, they go Wednesday.

I'm curious how wrong I am. (See attachment)

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

But here's my bet:

>90% people on this forum, looking at this weather forecast, with no particular reason to hurry, given a choice between departing P-town (tip of Cape Cod) for Gloucester on either Tuesday or Wednesday, they go Wednesday.

I'm curious how wrong I am. (See attachment)

Picking a weather window is part of planning for the trip.

Like I said, I don't understand WHY the first thought in people's heads are that upwind is always in hurricane or cyclone conditions with monsterous waves.


I watched a very refreshing video yesterday about a couple sailing a J46 around the world without going through the canals. They did a multi-day upwind sail from USVI to Grenada in the video making the passage between 2 Atlantic storms headed their way. No one was sick. No one went overboard. Nothing below was tossed out of the closets. They didn't lose the dingy or the outboard, and the dog ate from it's bowl while the boat was heeling and making way into the wind.

I note for the record that the boat wasn't dismasted either. Nor did the hull fail while they were averaging between 8 and 11 knots the entire distance and at one point they had 3 reefs in and were still making hull speed.

Using the above weather forecast, they would have left on whatever day was required to make the passage safely.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Like I said, I don't understand WHY the first thought in people's heads are that upwind is always in hurricane or cyclone conditions with monsterous waves.

If you think a head sea with 5-8-foot wind waves is monstrous, I think you need to sail upwind in them for 8 straight hours and get back to us. They aren't monstrous; they just make you uncomfortable after a while, and will beat you up after hours on end. It's the constant slamming, you see.

If you have done it, and enjoyed it, all power to you. You're the man. I am an unabashed milquetoast gunkholer.

If you haven't, imagine riding nonstop for eight hours on a bumpy dirt road in a jeep with no shocks. I've done that too, and the sensation in Hour Number 6 is about the same.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

If you think a head sea with 5-8-foot wind waves is monstrous, I think you need to sail upwind in them for 8 straight hours and get back to us. They aren't monstrous; they just make you uncomfortable after a while, and will beat you up after hours on end. It's the constant slamming, you see.

If you have done it, and enjoyed it, all power to you. You're the man. I am an unabashed milquetoast gunkholer.

If you haven't, imagine riding nonstop for eight hours on a bumpy dirt road in a jeep with no shocks. I've done that too, and the sensation in Hour Number 6 is about the same.

Seeing as I've been quite open about my newbieness your attitude is quite off putting. Not to mention all the movement going on with the goalposts you keep putting out.

My question was why people complain about sailing upwind. Your response is "because you don't like it."

Fair enough as it pertains to you.

As for the rest of the responses, thank you. It's been enlightening in more ways than one.