Sailing upwind

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Seeing as I've been quite open about my newbieness your attitude is quite off putting. Not to mention all the movement going on with the goalposts you keep putting out.

My question was why people complain about sailing upwind. Your response is "because you don't like it."

Fair enough as it pertains to you.

As for the rest of the responses, thank you. It's been enlightening in more ways than one.

No intent to put you off, friend. You made a comment about why everyone is talking about "monster waves and hurricanes," and I was merely trying to point out that it doesn't have to be that to make conditions difficult for a long, upwind sail. Poseidon does nothing but "move the goalposts."

Also, I'm in this very thread saying I like upwind sailing _in the right conditions, for a certain amount of time._

To sail upwind or not is not a zero-sum equation, is all I am trying to say (as are most people who responded to this thread.) There are conditions where the up-and-down slamming of a choppy head sea cut into a monohull's ability to sail effectively (much less enjoy the ride; forget about the passengers: How much slamming does the rigging and equipment want to take?)

Also, per that couple who went upwind and missed two storms at sea, I imagine outrunning a storm would be a reason to sail whichever way gets you around it. Not that I've done it: I'm no newbie but you could measure my offshore hours in hundreds; people here have thousands and thousands.

How about this: Next time you're in Boston, come on out and take a judgement-free ride.

Afterwords, we'll pop a few and compare notes.

Until then, fair winds, and safe sailing—up, down, across, and whatever makes you happy!

[DMF Sailing]

Left: Fun upwind sail. Right: The moment when an upwind sail goes wrong.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by thomm225

It's not about the maintenance; it's about the hard use.

Over stressing the rig.

Sheeting to extremes.

Heavy usage involving the above.

Unknowledgeable crew overstressing stanchions and lifelines.

Lots of people on the boat.

Sometimes collisions........

With the exception of new boats, all boats have their equipment in any condition from just replaced to some degree of wear and tear. The speed at which these parts loose their effectiveness is irrelevant, boats are all somewhere between new and worn out.

A race boat has an advantage in that crew are continuously keeping a good eye and ear out on the equipment and they take the boats out on shakedowns to test all equipment. It is more likely a race boat with more skilled crew will identify and replace parts at an earlier stage in their life cycle having a higher minimum standard than most cruisers. They can tell you that block was replaced at 500 hours, we will now replace them as part of our routine at 400 hours.

The same argument came up when we raced cars, but most stressed components on race cars are stripped down either after each meeting or annually dependant on life cycle.

I'm not saying this is true in every case, it is just more likely a race boat is better maintained to a higher minimum standard.

Whichever boat you buy, you should have it thoroughly inspected.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

With the exception of new boats, all boats have their equipment in any condition from just replaced to some degree of wear and tear. The speed at which these parts loose their effectiveness is irrelevant, boats are all somewhere between new and worn out.

A race boat has an advantage in that crew are continuously keeping a good eye and ear out on the equipment and they take the boats out on shakedowns to test all equipment..

Actually many of the crew on most racing boats are beginners. (rail meat)

They are the ones many times doing lots of harm especially to stanchions and the deck around them. If you inspect the average racing boat, you will see cracks at the stanchion bases and/or bent stanchions

You must be thinking about paid crew members such as those on an America's Cup boat.

We are talking folks buying your average racing boat and most don't purchase used America's Cup boats for cruising.

Most ordinary racing boats are crewed by those the skipper can find and many skippers are so wild about winning they over stress their boats.

[markpierce]

Found downwind required more rudder adjustments than going upwind on sailboats.

[thomm225]

For years, I thought upwind sailing was the only fun point of sail until I got my first spinnaker then that all changed.

Running downwind at 20 knots and watching the gusts coming from behind to anticipate the steering adjustment was quite enjoyable.....

It must be pointed out though the maximum distance for a beach cat race I was involved in was 100 miles so it...... none of this 8 hours or 8 days pounding into waves.

I did get to do six 100 mile RTI (Round the Island) races though which were great

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by thomm225

For years, I thought upwind sailing was the only fun point of sail until I got my first spinnaker then that all changed.

Running downwind at 20 knots and watching the gusts coming from behind to anticipate the steering adjustment was quite enjoyable.....

It must be pointed out though the maximum distance for a beach cat race I was involved in was 100 miles so it...... none of this 8 hours or 8 days pounding into waves.

I did get to do six 100 mile RTI (Round the Island) races though which were great

On a racing boat such as this Soling 27' on the harbor in 15-20kts, all points of sail have their charm. (And not to beat a dead horse, Rob_P, but these boats don't have auxiliaries. So half the sail is upwind. Next time you're in Boston!)

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

No intent to put you off, friend. You made a comment about why everyone is talking about "monster waves and hurricanes," and I was merely trying to point out that it doesn't have to be that to make conditions difficult for a long, upwind sail. Poseidon does nothing but "move the goalposts."

Also, I'm in this very thread saying I like upwind sailing _in the right conditions, for a certain amount of time._

To sail upwind or not is not a zero-sum equation, is all I am trying to say (as are most people who responded to this thread.) There are conditions where the up-and-down slamming of a choppy head sea cut into a monohull's ability to sail effectively (much less enjoy the ride; forget about the passengers: How much slamming does the rigging and equipment want to take?)

Also, per that couple who went upwind and missed two storms at sea, I imagine outrunning a storm would be a reason to sail whichever way gets you around it. Not that I've done it: I'm no newbie but you could measure my offshore hours in hundreds; people here have thousands and thousands.

How about this: Next time you're in Boston, come on out and take a judgement-free ride.

Afterwords, we'll pop a few and compare notes.

Until then, fair winds, and safe sailing—up, down, across, and whatever makes you happy!

Those goalposts look really heavy. You should put them down and stop overexerting yourself.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Those goalposts look really heavy. You should put them down and stop overexerting yourself.

I'll make it easy, then, Rob.

Upwind sailing = fun. You can't learn to sail without mastering it, and everyone who really likes to sail enjoys it.

Long upwind passages = can be fun for a while, with diminishing returns to scale in lumpy conditions as the beatings taken by skipper, crew, and boat gradually take their toll. A lot of skippers plan around long upwind passages, unless they're trying to achieve something (racing, avoiding bad weather, making a YouTube video about upwind sailing, or there's no other way to get where you need to go.)

I daresay most people here will agree with the above.

Best wishes in your sailing journey, and take care!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

I'll make it easy, then, Rob.

Upwind sailing = fun. You can't learn to sail without mastering it, and everyone who really likes to sail enjoys it.

Long upwind passages = can be fun for a while, with diminishing returns to scale in lumpy conditions as the beatings taken by skipper, crew, and boat gradually take their toll. A lot of skippers plan around long upwind passages, unless they're trying to achieve something (racing, avoiding bad weather, making a YouTube video about upwind sailing, or there's no other way to get where you need to go.)

I daresay most people here will agree with the above.

Best wishes in your sailing journey, and take care!

Your working too hard mate..
You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink..

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Your working too hard mate..
You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink..

I'm a tool, boatman, as gullible as flying fish are apt to end up on your deck.

(Although they're more likely to land there when you're on a reach, he couldn't resist adding.)

[StuM]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Your working too hard mate..
You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink..

This!


Dunno how many timess now he's been told the same thing by lots of different posters, but he still can't (or won't) grasp the concept that long ocean passages are a very different thing to a few hours of inshore sailing.


(And the vloggers he was critical of in the first post would not have been talking about the latter)

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually many of the crew on most racing boats are beginners. (rail meat)

They are the ones many times doing lots of harm especially to stanchions and the deck around them. If you inspect the average racing boat, you will see cracks at the stanchion bases and/or bent stanchions

You must be thinking about paid crew members such as those on an America's Cup boat.

We are talking folks buying your average racing boat and most don't purchase used America's Cup boats for cruising.

Most ordinary racing boats are crewed by those the skipper can find and many skippers are so wild about winning they over stress their boats.

and there is the other kind, I'd argue the more common kind.

The boats with regular crew. I'm not sure about the "rail meat" :-) lying all over your stanchions, I've never been on a mono-thingy.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Your working too hard mate..
You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink..

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

I'm a tool, boatman, as gullible as flying fish are apt to end up on your deck.

(Although they're more likely to land there when you're on a reach, he couldn't resist adding.)

Originally Posted by StuM

This!


Dunno how many timess now he's been told the same thing by lots of different posters, but he still can't (or won't) grasp the concept that long ocean passages are a very different thing to a few hours of inshore sailing.


(And the vloggers he was critical of in the first post would not have been talking about the latter)

Originally Posted by Dave_S

and there is the other kind, I'd argue the more common kind.

The boats with regular crew. I'm not sure about the "rail meat" :-) lying all over your stanchions, I've never been on a mono-thingy.

I don't know why you feel you have to make this personal.

If YOU don't like it, then YOU don't.

I'm not you.

See the difference?

[thomm225]

There really is a lot that goes into upwind sailing and if you should ever become a racer boat setup like mast rake and prebend are so important then there's sheeting tension on the main and jib, traveler position, batten thickness, mast rotation (beach cats) etc

Also important are start line position, favored side of the course, etc

And steering...

It can drive you nuts if the boat beside you is moving just a bit better than you are......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swvtXAPIX4U