Sailing upwind

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Found downwind required more rudder adjustments than going upwind on sailboats.

Quite.

Upwind sailing is for lazy people. I once sailed for days, even weeks on a windward crossing of the Indian Ocean with a broken autopilot and by setting the sails up correctly and a bungee cord on the wheel, she would sail upwind hour after hour, day after day, with little intervention from me. I was single-handed and slept through a lot of it.

My experience is that when sailing off the wind, there is little chance of getting a boat to sail herself without an autopilot engaged.

[Be Free]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

But here's my bet:

>90% people on this forum, looking at this weather forecast, with no particular reason to hurry, given a choice between departing P-town (tip of Cape Cod) for Gloucester on either Tuesday or Wednesday, they go Wednesday.

I'm curious how wrong I am. (See attachment)

[Be Free]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

I'll make it easy, then, Rob.

Upwind sailing = fun. You can't learn to sail without mastering it, and everyone who really likes to sail enjoys it.

Long upwind passages = can be fun for a while, with diminishing returns to scale in lumpy conditions as the beatings taken by skipper, crew, and boat gradually take their toll. A lot of skippers plan around long upwind passages, unless they're trying to achieve something (racing, avoiding bad weather, making a YouTube video about upwind sailing, or there's no other way to get where you need to go.)

I daresay most people here will agree with the above.

Best wishes in your sailing journey, and take care!

And once again a big .



Sorry about the late replys... I've been out sailing

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by Be Free

And once again a big .



Sorry about the late replys... I've been out sailing

Damn you for having fun!


I'm having issues with my sailing lessons. The school cancelled 2 classes due to Wx and now I can't get anyone to return my messages so I can schedule my next class. 3 weeks between classes isn't good for learning/knowledge retention.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Quite.

Upwind sailing is for lazy people. I once sailed for days, even weeks on a windward crossing of the Indian Ocean with a broken autopilot and by setting the sails up correctly and a bungee cord on the wheel, she would sail upwind hour after hour, day after day, with little intervention from me. I was single-handed and slept through a lot of it.

My experience is that when sailing off the wind, there is little chance of getting a boat to sail herself without an autopilot engaged.

From the videos I've watched, most autopilots don't like going downwind. They can't seem to keep up with the constant rudder changes.

The only ones that seem to work regardless of wind direction are the wind vanes.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

From the videos I've watched, most autopilots don't like going downwind. They can't seem to keep up with the constant rudder changes.

The only ones that seem to work regardless of wind direction are the wind vanes.

Electric autopilot steering the boat downwind in winds gusting to high 20's.
You can hear the autopilot correcting course at the start of this video.

It's all about sail selection.

2nd video wing and wing. Wind just coming up. Autopilot in charge.

3rd video. Too much mainsail up. Only have one set of reef points. Winds gusting over 30 knots although it had laid down by the time I took the video. Skipper had to steer after first 30 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtdrmAqojs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejcp-rCYz3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nXfjcCuiPk

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

From the videos I've watched, most autopilots don't like going downwind. They can't seem to keep up with the constant rudder changes.

The only ones that seem to work regardless of wind direction are the wind vanes.

Most helmsmen don’t like steering downwind. That’s totally the reason why I said that beating (sailing upwind) is for lazy people. It’s much easier. But autopilots do a great job - most of my sailing is done off the wind and we rarely spend any time at the wheel on a passage.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Electric autopilot steering the boat downwind in winds gusting to high 20's.
You can hear the autopilot correcting course at the start of this video.

It's all about sail selection.

2nd video wing and wing. Wind just coming up. Autopilot in charge.

3rd video. Too much mainsail up. Only have one set of reef points. Winds gusting over 30 knots although it had laid down by the time I took the video. Skipper had to steer after first 30 minutes.

Now, one thing I've never done is go wing-on-wing on autopilot in any kind of wind, much less in 30 knots.

Is this something normally done without a pole and a preventer? [I.e., is an autopilot that good at holding the course?]

[Obviously I've never sailed from Calif. to Hawaii, e.g. Christian Williams has a video in which he's wing-on-wing pretty much the whole way. But his jib is poled out and he's got a preventer on the main.]

[StuM]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Now, one thing I've never done is go wing-on-wing on autopilot in any kind of wind, much less in 30 knots.

Is this something normally done without a pole and a preventer? [I.e., is an autopilot that good at holding the course?]

Wing-on-wing without a pole and preventer is stupidity whether on autopilot or hand steering. (I have done it on occasion while inshore racing in light conditions with a "human pole" and "human preventer" )

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Now, one thing I've never done is go wing-on-wing on autopilot in any kind of wind, much less in 30 knots.

Is this something normally done without a pole and a preventer? [I.e., is an autopilot that good at holding the course?]

[Obviously I've never sailed from Calif. to Hawaii, e.g. Christian Williams has a video in which he's wing-on-wing pretty much the whole way. But his jib is poled out and he's got a preventer on the main.]

The wing and wing wasn't in 30 knots.

It was more like 11 knots and it sort of just happened.

My son met me at my anchorage and we went hiking. Afterward, I loaded up my kayak after getting back to the boat around noon, secured everything, pulled the anchor and sailed off.

I got the sails up and unfurled the jib, set the autopilot then went forward to secure the anchor which I had just dropped on the deck.

The sails went wing and wing when I unfurled the jib so I just went with it for maybe 10 miles.

Wind kept building during this period and I ended up on a port tack....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejcp-rCYz3U

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by StuM

Wing-on-wing without a pole and preventer is stupidity whether on autopilot or hand steering. (I have done it on occasion while inshore racing in light conditions with a "human pole" and "human preventer" )

It may be stupidity for you, but for those of us that know how to sail, it's quite nice at times

From 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhNQs1DUaDY

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

[Obviously I've never sailed from Calif. to Hawaii, e.g. Christian Williams has a video in which he's wing-on-wing pretty much the whole way. But his jib is poled out and he's got a preventer on the main.]

The Singlehanded Transpac (SHTP) is California (San Fran) to Hawaii.

It's usually a broad reach or lower and they use spinnakers ......and they tend to be on starboard tack the whole way.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Electric autopilot steering the boat downwind in winds gusting to high 20's.
You can hear the autopilot correcting course at the start of this video.

It's all about sail selection.

2nd video wing and wing. Wind just coming up. Autopilot in charge.

3rd video. Too much mainsail up. Only have one set of reef points. Winds gusting over 30 knots although it had laid down by the time I took the video. Skipper had to steer after first 30 minutes.

We had nice DDW competition with probably 46 ft monohull. Surprisingly, it almost kept up with us so better sailor was on board. That is usually not the case.

However at some point monohull and AP went in sync and it started doing zigzag and heeling a lot port and then stbd, etc. Boat came out of it after around 5 full swings. Didn't look too good. Maybe wrong AP or incorrect setting?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

We had nice DDW competition with probably 46 ft monohull. Surprisingly, it almost kept up with us so better sailor was on board. That is usually not the case.

However at some point monohull and AP went in sync and it started doing zigzag and heeling a lot port and then stbd, etc. Boat came out of it after around 5 full swings. Didn't look too good. Maybe wrong AP or incorrect setting?

Sounds like too much mainsail as compared to jib.

I rarely went wing and wing when I raced beach cats, but I sure enjoyed a spinnaker run in 20 knots in protected water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D52xllb112c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1rZUMkisjA

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

That’s totally the reason why I said that beating (sailing upwind) is for lazy people.

I never considered sailing upwind as a lazy point of sail but my experience was more similar to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L92TfvlA3tY