Sails

[brookiesailor]

I tried to make a poll but couldn't figure it out. So here is the question...

Fully battened sails
Partially battened sails
No battens

And why?


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[GordMay]

See ➥ http://www.porttownsendsails.com/pdf/mainsails.pdf

And ➥ A Mainsail for all Seasons | Cruising World

[Kaptah]

You need to be more specific in your question. What size of boat and what is the main usage for starters.

And which sails you are talking about? No battens for my spinnaker, thank you

[brookiesailor]

Thanks gordmay, that was very informative!

I was mostly looking to see what others had chosen and their reasoning. We are looking into purchasing a 54 foot sloop in the next couple of years. It comes with in mast stowage but I am not sure I like this option. I did my RYA day skipper on a 47 ft Bavaria with in mast stowage and it was a total pain. It would have to be teased out and wasn't too fond of going back either. Being that it is just hubby and I we are looking at different scenarios and set ups. So I was wondering what other people had and why


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[Sailmonkey]

We chose full battens for the main, partial for the mizzen. Our boat is small, so the relative weight of the battens is no big deal, and I like the extra roach afforded by the battens in the main, that's the beach cat sailor in me. On a larger boat I'd opt for partial or no battens for ease of handling.


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[carstenb]

Originally Posted by brookiesailor

Thanks gordmay, that was very informative!

I was mostly looking to see what others had chosen and their reasoning. We are looking into purchasing a 54 foot sloop in the next couple of years. It comes with in mast stowage but I am not sure I like this option. I did my RYA day skipper on a 47 ft Bavaria with in mast stowage and it was a total pain. It would have to be teased out and wasn't too fond of going back either. Being that it is just hubby and I we are looking at different scenarios and set ups. So I was wondering what other people had and why


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Well you can start a long long discussion with this. I've had a in-mast furling main and never had a problem with. It makes life much easier if you're short of crew and you have infinite reefing possibilities.

Our main is partially battened, which allows good sail trim and is a bit easier to handle

[brookiesailor]

I guess you are right I could have asked paint colors and why. Infinite possibilities and answers...


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[monte]

Brookie your question is more about reefing systems than sail types. The sail type follows the course set by the reefing system, ie fully battened horizontal battens don't work in mast furling. So you would be better to concentrate on your preferred furling system, then focus on sail type that will work with that system. Slab reefing on the boom is probably the most popular and bomb proof and will work with any sail, battened or not, but usually battens are added to improve sail shape and performance. In mast furling as you have experienced can be troublesome. When it's working it is fairly simple to furl and unfurl, when it's not it can be a major headache. Usually battens aren't an option although some sails will have vertices battens with in mast furling. Boom roller furling is another option which is somewhere between the two for performance, ease of use and troublesomeness....

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by monte

Brookie your question is more about reefing systems than sail types. The sail type follows the course set by the reefing system, ie fully battened horizontal battens don't work in mast furling. So you would be better to concentrate on your preferred furling system, then focus on sail type that will work with that system. Slab reefing on the boom is probably the most popular and bomb proof and will work with any sail, battened or not, but usually battens are added to improve sail shape and performance. In mast furling as you have experienced can be troublesome. When it's working it is fairly simple to furl and unfurl, when it's not it can be a major headache. Usually battens aren't an option although some sails will have vertices battens with in mast furling. Boom roller furling is another option which is somewhere between the two for performance, ease of use and troublesomeness....

Can you explain why you feel in-boom furling is between the two for performance, ease of use and troublesomeness?

As for performance, the only downside I see to in-boom furling is the windage and weight of a larger boom -- but that isn't that much. Arguably the performance is better than slab reefing as one potentially has an infinte number of reefing points (although I usually stop at a batten).

As for ease of use and troublesomeness -- can you explain what you mean? Is this about having to set the right boom angle (elevation)?

[brookiesailor]

Monte
I can see how my response about the in mast furling would make you think this is about reefing but it is not. We kind of have made up our minds to have a traditional flaking on the boom reefing and was interested in what kind of main sails people had and why.


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[brookiesailor]

Ok to play fair let me tell you what I have learned so far.

Un battened sails have less sail are, offer slightly less performance but hold up well. They are easy to reef.

Partially battened sails increase sail area but are subject to wear and tear at Batten pockets. Also ok to reef

Fully battened sail provide the best performance, also subject to the most wear at pocket end and along pockets where hits shrouds and or lazy jacks. They require special tracking on mast and are more difficult to raise and lower. The reef easier than the other two because the battens keep them from billowing. They are better in a light breeze because energy is not wasted on forming the sail. They don't flutter making that part of the sail last longer. They are difficult to de power making sailing up to a morning almost impossible.

All of that is from what I read on the subject thus far. I got time but wondered what you all thought



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[monte]

Originally Posted by accomplice

Can you explain why you feel in-boom furling is between the two for performance, ease of use and troublesomeness?

As for performance, the only downside I see to in-boom furling is the windage and weight of a larger boom -- but that isn't that much. Arguably the performance is better than slab reefing as one potentially has an infinte number of reefing points (although I usually stop at a batten).

As for ease of use and troublesomeness -- can you explain what you mean? Is this about having to set the right boom angle (elevation)?

Sure, in between because theres something else to maintain and more bits to hit the fan than standard slab reefing, but not as much as in mast. At least you still have the option of dropping the sail if the furler packs in, unlike in mast furling. Rescuing Ben Ainslie from a boat? Stranger things have happened at sea - Virgin.com

Performance wise slab reeing allows for the foot tension to be adjusted for optimal shape. Also the sail can be cut for best performance rather than cut to fold neatly inside the mast or boom. At the end of the day, not a big deal and I'd pick whatever reefing system works for you and go from there.

Brookie youre correct on most of those points but fully battened doesnt really adversly effect sailing onto a mooring, it can be depowered 100% the same as no battens.

I dont see any benifit of not having a fully battened main unless you want in mast furling.

[Adelie]

Since my interest in in remote cruising I would get a different boat rather than take in-mast furling, the complexity penalty is too high for something that critical to the functioning of the boat in bad conditions.

For preference I an intending to go batten-less when I next buy a main:
Slightly less cost up front
Significantly less maintenance over the long term
Fewer issues raising sail on a run although I avoid that anyway.

There are boats that were designed to have large roaches that won't balance right with a main like this but mostly they aren't the kind of boats I'm interested in.

In light winds there will be a performance cost. Since I intend to construct a light wind nylon main to complement the battenless main, this should be a non-issue.

[SkiprJohn]

Back in the very old days of cruising there were very few fully battened sails and many of my friends chose battenless just for the reasons you stated. They weren't really concerned about speed and it was really easier to reef which they knew they would be doing a lot of. My preference is a standard battened sail with jiffy/slab reefing system and jacklines.

[autumnbreeze27]

The other advantage of battened sails is they extend a sails useful life by helping it hold it's shape.

When we had our Catalina 34 we had our sail maker fix one batten that broke and turn a partial batten to a full one, and it really helped performance.