Security Issues - Numbers don't add up

[Waterrat10]

funjohnson

Would you say to not travel to Guatemala? Imho smaller and cheaper boast are still less of a target for thief's. If I traveld with a rolax and gold rings, necklaces, and shining nice clothes I would be more of target then no jewlery, and a timex watch. Not to mention much easier to give up cheaper possessions and walk away. Sometime stuff happens but usually if you are not the easiest or most obvious target you are unlikely to have a problem. Off course crime could happen to any one any where.

[Waterrat10]

Originally Posted by REsCat

Waterrat10 with all due respect is that the requirement to "safely" sail in third world countries including CA... "small simply out fitted Tartan 27, Albin Vega or similar older boat" .... is that what you sail in? or would want to sail in? does that apply to 98% of the people on this forum? is that what you want to be in with your wife in all conditions offshore which I have sailed in and probably you as well?

Even those boats you list above if alone along the coast in the above countries I have reservations about are "rich" targets to the locals I listed above...
The couples you describe above got lucky?... one of the very few that has recently cruised "extensively" along those waters and had no problems?


"Many people do and are cruising those areas" Who... I haven't come across their detailed blogs or routes...?

Bob

Lot of questions here that I assume are mostly rhetorical. These craft are not what I sail. I would sail that cost in a well prepared and outfitted craft of the two named above. Would I prefer and or choose a different craft yes most definitely. Not sure what I would choose I would need some more time and a budget to come up with that answer. No it obviously does not apply to 98% on this forum but 98% of this forum have not and would not travel in Central America. Heck I would wildly guess again and say 98% of people reading this forum do not travel outside the USA, Canada, Western Europe and some all inclusive resort in the Caribbean. Lucky, aren't we all very lucky. 99.9% of us on this forum are very very lucky. I have a computer and can read, write and am breathing. There is no craft on this planet I would like to be in all conditions offshore with anyone. Though if I was my wife would be high on that list to have along. She is very very smart, sexy and capable person. All water craft have trade offs and those trade offs need to be considered when making any passage. There are many well found boats of many shapes and sizes that could safely coastal hop along the Central American coast in relatively speaking moderately capable hands.

I spend very little time exploring blogs etc and have probably visited 20- 30 sailing blogs ever so I am not the guy to ask about who is traveling that coast. I can off the top of my head name two. Whitespot pirate has an interesting video blog of a single women sailing Central America. whitespotpirates.com Steven and Ginney have this blog. The Adventures of Ginny and Steve (and George)! I would do it differently then either of these two examples. I am sure I am not familar with most sailing blogs and most people don't blog their lives. So I can only assume there are many more folks traveling Central America on boats. There are a crap ton of folks who travel to Guatemala by boat. One issue with traveling this coast is that there are not many ports along this coast and most of the best traveling in Central America is not on the coast imho. No problems, well what adventure does not have some problems. Life is full of problems and we all have different levels of risk tolerance. Lets just hope most problems are not terminal. So far I have been lucky with enough skill and discretion to make up for when I am not lucky. Not saying it is or is not for you or anyone else just that it is and can be done.

[REsCat]

Sorry about all the questions, and yes they can be classed as rhetorical,
We are very lucky!! my wife and I say that to each other all the time when we look at our changing "backyard" on the hook , "We are so incredibly lucky to be experiencing this lifestyle, doing this "
I fear that if we experienced a violent form of piracy or attack (so far none...no theft or anything...) that we would be so traumatized, our confidence, security "shaken", that the cruising dream and lifestyle would be destroyed

We are very seasoned travellers and apply street smarts everywhere but that is no guarantee or shield. I agree that "life is full of problems" and gambles at times and you rely on common sense,discretion good judgement and luck!. That is all you can do.
We want to cruise as much of CA as we can and want to do it with other boat(s), that is some comfort and safety for us and the situation is always changing like everywhere else.
We also will do it with our present boat but I will make sure we have smaller, slower company with us... for remember the old adage :
When travelling thru the woods with someone else and are confronted by an
angry,attacking Bear... you do not need to outrun the bear only the "someone else" ...

Sorry, that is a poor(taste) attempt at humor on this very serious , and important topic that every cruiser thinks about or should think about.

Bob

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Waterrat10

funjohnson

Would you say to not travel to Guatemala? Imho smaller and cheaper boast are still less of a target for thief's. If I traveld with a rolax and gold rings, necklaces, and shining nice clothes I would be more of target then no jewlery, and a timex watch. Not to mention much easier to give up cheaper possessions and walk away. Sometime stuff happens but usually if you are not the easiest or most obvious target you are unlikely to have a problem. Off course crime could happen to any one any where.

No, I loved Guatemala and recommend it to most cruisers. But implying you would be safer in Central America because you're sailing a smaller, inexpensive boat, isn't 100% right. If you take chances because of a false sense of security in your small yacht, you'll eventually see the issue with this logic.

Heres what I've seen. The smaller boats with less draft anchor closer to shore (the thieves often swims out). Because of the value of boat, they have a tendency to leave it at anchor vs marina for a few days while they go exploring inland (thieves watch for this). They often gunkhold into areas where they are all alone (these are the areas where you want people around). I'm not saying you'll this, but it's just what I've seen the small boats do around Honduras, Guatemala, Belize and Mexico.

From an enjoyment of cruising standpoint, the things I listed above are awesome. Just think of what you're doing and talk to other cruisers in the area. The old timers can give you an idea of where not to go.

While backpacking in South America, we'd wonder just about anywhere (stupid) during the day. But if we'd just hit the ATM or had our computers/camera we'd be much smarter with where we went.


Matt

Sent from my LG-V410 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Waterrat10]

Originally Posted by REsCat

I fear that if we experienced a violent form of piracy or attack (so far none...no theft or anything...) that we would be so traumatized, our confidence, security "shaken", that the cruising dream and lifestyle would be destroyed

Bob

I get it. That would be horrible. Quite rare but devastating none the less. If someone nicked your outboard is one thing but a violent attack could surely be traumatizing. Very rare especially with seasoned travelers. We all have or should have those fears in the back of our minds. Along with the violence, fire, flooding, man overboard and on and on. All we can do is prepare the best we can, stay informed and make prudent decisions based on our own risk tolerances. I wish you rewarding and safe travels. Start in Rio Dulce, or San Blas Islands and find other like minded but slower cruisers.

[Paul L]

I think Matt has it right about the risks caused by a smaller boat. Its your presence in a place that causes the risk, not the value of your boat back home. To those that think a small boat is somehow safer, do you think that traveling with a smaller, less expensive wife/girlfriend also reduces the risk of a rape? (rhetorical)
Pretending that the risks are the other guys just helps to set you up.

[zeehag]

guatemala is not experiencing that which is occurring in venezuela. there is no comparison.
if you truly believe that the waters of venezuela and islands reachable by pangas from venezuela are safe for anyone to cruise, go for it. please. go.

[REsCat]

Zeehag, who here has been advocating travelling to Venezuela? or saying that other CA countries are experiencing similar conditions or state?

Bob

[Waterrat10]

Matt (funjohnson)

You are correct. There are many more important consideration then the size and quality of your boat. Your above points are all better examples. I was just trying to say there are ways to make your self less of a target. Leaving boats for extended periods and in remote isolated anchorages would be two of many better examples on how to reduce odds of being a target for crime. I would not assume nor should anyone that a smaller cheaper boat will make you 100% safe from crime. Situational awareness is number one polite and respectful to locals probably number two. Most everything else will only reduce your odds of crime by a small fraction of a percent.

One thing I have found it that crime against tourist seems to be much more prevalent where there are many tourist congregated together feeling safe in numbers. Obviously less tourist less crime against tourist but Predators go where the lucrative and easy prey are and like the isolated pray from the heard. Such as drunk, close to shore, isolated from group etc etc. Don't be the easy prey and your odds of crime drop precipitously. Rural areas away from many tourist areas can put you at more risk in some ways but most people are good and honest and in small local areas everyone knows everyone and prey is few therefore there are few to no predators. Think like a predator. How would you rob such and such? Where would you hide and wait for prey? What would you look for? What body language would a predator illustrate? Most people are self involved with their thoughts, friends, etc and not looking up scanning for prey. Spend time thinking like a predator you will become more paranoid to some extent but you will be amazed how obvious predators really are. I always try to remember most people are good, honest people no matter where you are. It is a small number that prey on other people and possessions.

[Waterrat10]

Originally Posted by zeehag

guatemala is not experiencing that which is occurring in venezuela. there is no comparison.
if you truly believe that the waters of venezuela and islands reachable by pangas from venezuela are safe for anyone to cruise, go for it. please. go.

Why would you encourage folks to do something stupid just because they believe it? Ok occasionally it is a good way to learn a lesson but that is only when the risk is relatively minimal.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by REsCat

Zeehag, who here has been advocating travelling to Venezuela? or saying that other CA countries are experiencing similar conditions or state?

Bob

you read selectively, dont you. try reading ALL the posts.

[Waterrat10]

Zeehag

What about Trinidad? Surely reachable by pangas. For that matter much of the lower Antilles are reachable by pangas. Throw a 55 gallon drum of fuel, extra outboard in your panga now we can travel most of the lower Antilles. Your signature says "life is adventure meant to be lived". Seems contradictory to your above statements.

[zeehag]

ha ha ha ha i am out here, where are you???
the reports i made are as i stated. try reading ALL the posts in thread. mebbe you might understand something.

[Waterrat10]

The op and one other poster was saying to travel to Venezuela though the op did quickly come around to reason. I don't think anyone put CA in the same category as Venezuela.

[Waterrat10]

Originally Posted by zeehag

ha ha ha ha i am out here, where are you???
the reports i made are as i stated. try reading ALL the posts in thread. mebbe you might understand something.

I am in Michigan USA. No where near warmwatersville plus I am married. Unless my bathtub counts. I read your post earlier and was in agreement.