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Poche · 27-12-2020, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvweebles

What kind of boat are you selling? From your description and dire prognostications, sounds like a real POS. If it is and you've taken steps to hide it, you're right to be remorseful.

Peter

Where do you get this remorseful? Why do you insinuate that I have a POS to sell?
Where do you get that I am selling a boat at all.
You are really insulting. You ought to work on your reading comprehension skills and try to use your brain.

Poche · 27-12-2020, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L

That is not how you framed the question. You framed it as if you were going to protect the buyer from himself. Now you are framing it as you want to protect yourself from your potential buyer. Of course you protect yourself. That is why you have a contract and a process. Make sure yours is good.

Go back and read. You have to work on your reading comprehension skills also.

mvweebles · 27-12-2020, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poche

Where do you get this remorseful? Why do you insinuate that I have a POS to sell?
Where do you get that I am selling a boat at all.
You are really insulting. You ought to work on your reading comprehension skills and try to use your brain.

Yikes. My deepest apologies - I did not mean any offense. The information provided was sparse and I did infer certain items such as you did indeed have a boat to sell, and you were concerned about disclosures.

I really didn't mean to offend. I read your post a certain way that clearly you did not intend.

Peter

Poche · 27-12-2020, 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Poche as a marine surveyor I have seen a number of seller's end up refusing to sell a boat to a buyer. One guy was being real over the top with asking questions and demanding to know the life expectancy of every peice of equipment. By the end of the survey the sellers and I were exhausted and they decided the drama that they might get later was not worth the effort of selling the yacht to him. They actually said at the end of the survey he would be better of buying a new yacht.
I have seen variations of this story and basically the buyer is not looking for hassles after the boat is sold. Particularly if the boat is staying in the same marina as the sellers new boat.
There is this peculiar set of people who think that old boats should have a warranty and the previous owner should provide one!
Cheers

Ok. Here is a rational report from the front lines. Cheers to you, mate.

Poche · 27-12-2020, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureStories

You never did say what you are selling... Should it be seeing a chainsaw and not a buyer?

This isn't meant to be a discussion about me selling anything.

Poche · 27-12-2020, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvweebles

. But the OP has not given my info so who knows what the situation is.

As the "OP" I presented a few ideas for discussion. This is a forum, right? Do you think it's just for people coming in here and you tell them "how it is"?

mvweebles · 27-12-2020, 07:06

With all due respect Poche, several people have had a similar impression of your OP. Yes, a very technical read of it shows where a misunderstanding occurred. But there is a theme here - you can control how your message was delivered, but not how it was received. When someone posts an "Ethics of selling" in a sailing forum, it's reasonable to assume they are selling (or at least considering) a boat, likely a sailboat. Heck, in a later post you worried about a buyer and a hotshot lawyer threatening to sue - sure sounded like a first-person experience to me. But I guess it was one of those "a friend of mine..." style stories.

I really didn't mean to offend or insult you. But you may want to consider how myself and at least a couple others managed to find themselves at the wrong end of your ire.

Peter

Poche · 27-12-2020, 07:18

A lot of people don't understand and find it insulting when a salesman or broker "sizes up" a buyer. Also known as qualifying the buyer.
But it has a purpose.
Are you going to put a labor intensive, pain in the neck buyer in front of a qualified, knowledgeable one? Of course not.
Are you going to lose a sale because of some buyer's fantasy or choose a sale?
As far as "for sale by owners" are you ready to spend hours on the phone and in person explaining things to someone who new to boats?
You might want to use the analogy of bringing up a baby as opposed to dealing with a cultured adult. Which would you prefer?

Poche · 27-12-2020, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvweebles

With all due respect Poche, several people have had a similar impression of your OP. Yes, a very technical read of it shows where a misunderstanding occurred. But there is a theme here - you can control how your message was delivered, but not how it was received. When someone posts an "Ethics of selling" in a sailing forum, it's reasonable to assume they are selling (or at least considering) a boat, likely a sailboat. Heck, in a later post you worried about a buyer and a hotshot lawyer threatening to sue - sure sounded like a first-person experience to me. But I guess it was one of those "a friend of mine..." style stories.

I really didn't mean to offend or insult you. But you may want to consider how myself and at least a couple others managed to find themselves at the wrong end of your ire.

Peter

That's all well and good but why you defend yourself and others for reading your own information into the original post is beyond me.

sail sfbay · 27-12-2020, 08:28

Interesting thread.....you did not say what boat you are selling......My two cents:

Should a boat seller select who to sell to? You always have that option. I have sold a Hunter 31 sailboat and a Sport Nautique ski boat to my friends.

If you know that a buyer is stepping in way beyond their competence, ability and you know it will be a disaster what would you do? There has not been a boat I have purchased that I did not have a learning curve to gain competence and ability. Go ahead and sell it to them as they will get whatever instruction they need to overcome their lack of competence and/or ability.

Is warning them and presenting all known issues enough? As a seller that would be prudent.

What if they still want the boat? Go ahead and sell it to them as they will resolve any issues, if they desire.

Do you take their money and walk away knowing the buyer's just made one of the worst decisions of their life? The buyer always have the option of selling the boat, if they realize it was a poor buying decision.

Do you really want to sit back and wait for the news story of them stranded or even drowned (not to be too over dramatic)? Never heard of that yet.

What if it's just that you don't want to waste your time with showing the boat, doing a sea trial, dealing with a surveyor, dealing with the yard knowing that they will likely come to their senses and walk away? Exercise your option of not approving the offer.

Could you tell a buyer you don't want to sell to them? Again, you the option of not approving the offer.

Poche · 27-12-2020, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

Interesting thread.....you did not say what boat you are selling......My two cents:

Do you really want to sit back and wait for the news story of them stranded or even drowned (not to be too over dramatic)? Never heard of that yet.

Not about me selling a boat.
I remember a story from a few years ago.
Broker sold a dilapidated wood power boat to a family who didn't know anything. Wanted to "get the fishes".
Loaded the boat with 50 plus jerry cans of gasoline on the deck, cockpit and flybridge and filled the fuel tanks. Mom and dad, six huge kids, their equipment and supplies and headed to San Nicholas Island from the LA harbor.
The waterline was no longer visible.
Luckily, they ran out of gas and the coast guard found them. CG was able to tow them all the way back to their slip.
They abandoned the boat and disappeared.

ilanortho · 27-12-2020, 09:06

I was a newbie and bought a worn out H34 6 years ago. Surveyor told me it was fine which I subsequently found out was far off the mark. I have enjoyed the process from day one of restoring it and learning everything possible about the boat and boat systems and do not regret it, seeing it as a hard-core education in self-reliance. The only shocker was the amount of money I spent on upgrading and fixing it. Even if I bought a much more expensive boat in better shape, the bottom line is I would still spend a crapload of money doing things and fixing it. My boatyard manager /dealer tells me that even the boats he gets straight out of the factory require a lot of work rectifying problems before he can sell them! A new boat owner is rightly justified demanding this. Everyone else who is upset by this should get a different hobby unless something is wrong that the seller was aware of and information withheld.

So, it depends on the buyer and their attitude, but usually you're only in over your head if the boat is structurally unsound or you don't have the pocket book or will to rectify it. Example: I sold a sportscar recently and the buyer tried to give me a list of all the things he would have to do to it including the fact he wanted to paint it a different color even though the present paint job was pristine. Told him to go away.

Do what Rick on Pawn Stars does: "I don't think we're going to be able to agree on this and make a deal."

zstine · 27-12-2020, 09:15

I keep seeing post from time buyers on here asking newbie Q's about their 60 foot new boats. They are in over their head IMO, but it's not the person who sold them the boat who should be held accountable. The buyer makes the choice and is responsible. Just hope nobody gets hurt while learning.... I think that's what the OP is getting at.

redhead · 27-12-2020, 09:54

Poche - I think the disconnect here is on both sides.

On CF we normally see real situations, i.e. "I'm selling my boat" not a theoretical boat. The posters reacted to your post in that vein.

If you had started the post "Just for fun let's discuss Selling Ethics and Practice" it wouldn't have taken such a downward path so fast. I think all of us read Post #1 thinking you were in a jam and asking advice. Some were helpful, some not.

Internet, huh?