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Poche · 27-12-2020, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zstine

I keep seeing post from time buyers on here asking newbie Q's about their 60 foot new boats. They are in over their head IMO, but it's not the person who sold them the boat who should be held accountable. The buyer makes the choice and is responsible. Just hope nobody gets hurt while learning.... I think that's what the OP is getting at.

I am indeed. Part of it anyway. I think it's a very interesting discussion since we all deal with it eventually.

Poche · 27-12-2020, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhead

Poche - I think the disconnect here is on both sides.

Not so sure about that.
It says right on top "Cruisers & Sailing Forum"

"a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged."
Doesn't say anything about advice column, lol.

joelhemington · 27-12-2020, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poche

Should a boat seller select who to sell to?
If you know that a buyer is stepping in way beyond their competence, ability and you know it will be a disaster what would you do? Is warning them and presenting all known issues enough? What if they still want the boat?
Do you take their money and walk away knowing the buyer's just made one of the worst decisions of their life?
Do you really want to sit back and wait for the news story of them stranded or even drowned (not to be too over dramatic).
What if it's just that you don't want to waste your time with showing the boat, doing a sea trial, dealing with a surveyor, dealing with the yard knowing that they will likely come to their senses and walk away?
Could you tell a buyer you don't want to sell to them?

I don't think you really have the right to refuse a sale to anyone with the money to make the deal. The best you can do is represent the boat in an honest fashion and maybe reference the fact that this is a racing boat (or whatever unique feature that would make it less than ideal for most purposes) and let the buyer decide. If he's willing to put up the deposit then I think you're obliged to deal with him.

Stu Jackson · 27-12-2020, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Poche as a marine surveyor I have seen a number of seller's end up refusing to sell a boat to a buyer. One guy was being real over the top with asking questions and demanding to know the life expectancy of every peice of equipment. By the end of the survey the sellers and I were exhausted and they decided the drama that they might get later was not worth the effort of selling the yacht to him. They actually said at the end of the survey he would be better of buying a new yacht.
I have seen variations of this story and basically the buyer is not looking for hassles after the boat is sold. Particularly if the boat is staying in the same marina as the sellers new boat.
There is this peculiar set of people who think that old boats should have a warranty and the previous owner should provide one!
Cheers

Very good.

We sold our 1981 Catalina 22 to a couple in 1987. The boat was on a trailer at Clear Lake in northern California. We'd sailed it on SF Bay during the winters and trailered it up to the Lake every summer since we'd purchased it used in 1983. The couple who bought it were new to sailing. We showed them how to launch it, took them out sailing, showed them how to anchor, how to return to the slip, how to heave to and go swimming on a hot summer afternoon in the middle of the lake, just about everything we knew.

A year or two later we were up at the lake visiting friends, who told us that couple damn near killed themselves by taking the boat out in the middle of an unusual summer storm.

Can't fix stupid.

Poche · 27-12-2020, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelhemington

If he's willing to put up the deposit then I think you're obliged to deal with him.

Oh really. Is that an eleventh commandment, lol?

Poche · 27-12-2020, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

There is this peculiar set of people who think that old boats should have a warranty and the previous owner should provide one!
Cheers

At the same time, these people don't expect much from a car sale.

mvweebles · 27-12-2020, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhead

Poche - I think the disconnect here is on both sides.

On CF we normally see real situations, i.e. "I'm selling my boat" not a theoretical boat. The posters reacted to your post in that vein.

If you had started the post "Just for fun let's discuss Selling Ethics and Practice" it wouldn't have taken such a downward path so fast. I think all of us read Post #1 thinking you were in a jam and asking advice. Some were helpful, some not.

Internet, huh?

Nice try redhead. Poche seems to be the double-down type.

The internet indeed.

Chris Cringle · 27-12-2020, 14:26

I am currently sailing my 31st boat, so I have bought, and, more to the point of this post SOLD a lot of boats. I have, on a few occasion, refused to sell a boat to a willing buyer. To be honest, I refused to sell the boats because I still loved the boats and did not want to see them in the hands of incompetent owners. I just told them, " I have changed my mind, the boat is no longer for sale."

CarlF · 27-12-2020, 14:38

The fellow who built my boat built mostly offshore boats including many for people who wanted to circumnavigate. When a prospective client would visit he's take him up on the foredeck of a boat under construction and watch how nimble the guy was moving around.

More than once he decided that the prospect wasn't in good enough physical shape to handle a pitching foredeck and he would refuse to build him a boat. Although he would suggest other builders who didn't have the same reservations.

He told me it was a tragedy - both for the builder's business and for the prospect. "The poor bastard waited too long to go after his dream. Maybe he wanted to earn more money for a bigger boat. Or was too busy. But whatever the reason he waited too long. I'm not going to let him go out there and kill himself"

Poche · 27-12-2020, 15:12

I honestly don't know where people get this strange idea that if you shove money into someone's face they have to sell you a boat, a car or a house. Maybe they are transferring it from some misunderstanding of anti-discrimination laws. I don't know.
I do know that unless money changes hands there is no contract. That's been proven over and over in the courts.
A lot of people also have this notion that boat owners are desperate to sell. I don't believe that's true either. They may not use their boats much but so what.

mvweebles · 27-12-2020, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poche

I honestly don't know where people get this strange idea that if you shove money into someone's face they have to sell you a boat, a car or a house. Maybe they are transferring it from some misunderstanding of anti-discrimination laws. I don't know.
I do know that unless money changes hands there is no contract. That's been proven over and over in the courts.
A lot of people also have this notion that boat owners are desperate to sell. I don't believe that's true either. They may not use their boats much but so what.

If a boat is listed for sale, a buyer has a reasonable expectation that if they make a fair offer, the seller will consider it. If their offer is at or close to asking price, a reasonable expectation that the seller will accept the offer, or at least counter the offer on good faith.

Sounds like you are gaming this and coming up with scenarios where a seller can decide not to sell but perhaps continue to keep the boat on the market.

Im sure you will argue the point, but the questions and deductions lead me to believe you would not be a good faith seller if you indeed owned a boat that was for sale. I'm glad I did not bump into such as seller when I was shopping (not that you are such a seller, but if you were....)

Peter

CarlF · 27-12-2020, 15:27

As long as you are not violating discrimination laws for "protected classes" (e.g. race, religion, sex...) you are free to sell or not sell to anyone you want - right up to the moment you sign a contract.

People often say something is for sale when they are just testing the market.

It's not even underhanded.

It's called free enterprise.

sailingabe41ds · 27-12-2020, 15:57

Simple...BOAT FOR SALE...I disclose what is wrong/right with the boat. It is the buyers responsibility to hire a surveyor. If he drowns cause he doesn't know how to sail...well he should have taken lessons. I have no love affair with the boat ,so I do not care who I sell it to with the exception that I will not sell to friends nor family members. Too much emotional risks if something were to go wrong.

Abe

mvweebles · 27-12-2020, 16:04

I guess I'm still a bit confused. Are sailing resumes now required as part of an offer and deposit? In the OPs scenario, how would he know the credentials of the person making the offer?