SPINNAKERS; ASYMETRICAL OR SYMETRICAL??

[knot smart]

hello all! we have a Bene Oceanis352 and am interested in getting a spinnaker, so am trying to learn everything there is to know.

my first question is should you go with asymetrical or symetrical? or perhaps the proper question is what are the benefits of each style?


thank for the help

jay

[markwesti]

Asyms. are largely used on race boats , if you are just cruising a spin would work . To confuse the issue even further you could go with our favorite a "drifter" I wonder if that's the same as a "jeneker" any how the drifter does not require a pole . Think really big genoa made from spin cloth , you can run the drifter to lee and pole the gib to the wind .

[knot smart]

Originally Posted by markwesti

Asyms. are largely used on race boats , if you are just cruising a spin would work to confuse the issue even further you could go with our favorite a "drifter" I wonder if that's the same as a "jeneker" any how the two later do not require a pole . Think really big genoa made from spin cloth , you can run them to lee and pole the gib to the wind . First though , does your boat have a back stay ?

yes, we have a backstay.. we also have a spinnaker pole, i sometimes use it on the genny when we run winged.. ive been watching a lot of youtube and i did see the genneker option..

what is it about the cut of the asym that makes it prefered for racing?

[cpt_757]

Asymmetrical and top down furler, work good for singlehander like me or short handed.

[cpt_757]

I am now very interested in a parasailor spinnaker.

[knot smart]

great info

[markwesti]

Originally Posted by cpt_757

I am now very interested in a parasailor spinnaker.

Sorry about the back stay question , I sailboat data .comed your boat and see that you do have one . IMO if you already have the rigging for a spin you are half way there. I'm not trying to end this thread by any means I'm very interested , but here is what I think . Talk to a sail maker tell him your plans and I bet he would suggest a good all round (possibly a little smaller) spin for your first . You might also look into a dowsing sock .

I'm almost afraid to ask , a parasailor spin ?

[Suijin]

I would go with a socked asym hands down. Easier to deploy, trim, and take down. A symmetrical spinnaker is a PITA to manage single-handed, and even with two people screw-ups can happen and more can go wrong.

Yes, you can't sail as deep with an asym but the difference in manageability and workload is worth the trade off.

That said, those that I know who have a parasailor absolute adore it, particularly on long passages.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I would go with a socked asym hands down. Easier to deploy, trim, and take down. A symmetrical spinnaker is a PITA to manage single-handed, and even with two people screw-ups can happen and more can go wrong.

Yes, you can't sail as deep with an asym but the difference in manageability and workload is worth the trade off.

That said, those that I know who have a parasailor absolute adore it, particularly on long passages.

The above is your best bet in terms of performance, & ease of used. And it's the most economical option as well. For a bit more education, try the below link, along with searching here on CF via the word spinnaker. Downwind | North Sails

Edit: Before you ask, yes, top down furlers are an option. Though they too have drawbacks, just as do snuffers (socks). Though they're a fair bit more expensive. And it's not wise to leave a furled spinnaker hoisted for any length of time. Also, you need an anti-torsion cable for each sail to be used with the furler, & they're not cheap. But Harken makes a good one which you can tune it's length to suit you.

[Snowpetrel]

On most cruising boats a symetrical on a pole is much better (and faster)down wind. And it's at least as good broad reaching in most conditions and overall more versitile, but then you have to mess about with poles and the likes which puts most crusiers off them.

An asymetric kite is easier to handle and this is the real reason most cruisers have adopted them, but they are somewhat limited in the wind angles if cut flat they can do better on a tight reach than a symetric, but too far downwind and they collapse behind the main. So many cruisers drop the main on this point of sail, but this makes dropping the sail dangerous due to not being able to blanket the sail behind the main.

You can still pole an asymetric to windward or even sail wing and wing with them at a pinch but these involve poles again..

[knot smart]

from the youtube videos ive watched i like the snuffer sock setup..unfortunately my wife currently considers sailing a spectator sport..so being able to set autopilot and being able to deploy and dowse myself would be better.. a major concern i have is my boat currently doesnt have a bow sprit pole to get the tack way out in front of the bow spirit.. i did see a set up where they put a block next to the roller guide for the anchor where you run the tack line through and back to the cockpit .. just not sure if that was an acceptable way of rigging ..i also saw a strap that wraps around the headsail furler but i think that was for a genneker

comments?

[lamadriver]

wrotten by a fourm member and sailmaker:

The best sails for downwind cruising - Sailfeed


then read this....Best sails for downwind cruising: reader questions | Sailing Totem

ihave both a asym on a sock, which i almost never use sincing having Phil/Jamie build me a ccz

ld

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by knot smart

from the youtube videos ive watched i like the snuffer sock setup..unfortunately my wife currently considers sailing a spectator sport..so being able to set autopilot and being able to deploy and dowse myself would be better.. a major concern i have is my boat currently doesnt have a bow sprit pole to get the tack way out in front of the bow spirit.. i did see a set up where they put a block next to the roller guide for the anchor where you run the tack line through and back to the cockpit .. just not sure if that was an acceptable way of rigging ..i also saw a strap that wraps around the headsail furler but i think that was for a genneker

comments?

Sprits aren't a necessity by any means, as yes, you can fly one from a block attached to the deck, or a bow roller, if strong enough. Even flying it from a sleeve that goes around a furled up jib is acceptable, such as "the Tacker" by ATN.
Though a sprit will help you to get much better performance out of the sail, & to let you sail a bit deeper with it. And the further out in front of the boat it is, the better air it gets, & generally, the more balanced your sail plan will be. Which makes for better control downwind.

The sails themselves, & their rigging needn't be complex. Albeit symmetricals are a good bit more so. The tricky parts are in what to do when the sail gets unstable when gybing, during hoists & take downs, etc. As they're just plain big, & are only connected to the boat at their corners.

On a cruising boat you generally want to stick to a heavier weight cloth, like 1.5oz. Since it's more tolerant of handling goofs. Along with the fact that it'll have more strength left after it's been in the sun. Much more than if you were to have a 0.5oz, or 0.75oz kite. Though they're nice when it's really light (wind wise).

You're best off to learn while supervised. Whether that's by crewing on another boat, especially a racer. Like in a Wedneday night Beer Can series, where folks are less serious. Or taking folks out sailing, some of whom know how to handle such sails, & you can even ask someone to bring one along. Just spring for dinner if you do

[knot smart]

and this is why i love trolling this forum.. great opinions and feedback..

thanks

Like in a Wedneday night Beer Can series, where folks are less serious.[QUOTE}
lol that reminds me of the yacht club we belong with.. its more like a working class beer club that every wednesday night the guys (and ladies) get together and drink a 30 pack and sail around in a circle for a couple hours.. life is great

[Ardbeg]

I have a A sym in .75 oz cloth. Huge sail over 1000 sq ft on my masthead boat. I simply put a block on my anchor sprit for the tack line. I use two sheets. I use a sock, works great. Once the sail is deployed you can play with the tack line to get the sail away from the bow of the boat. Beautiful sail for up to 10 knots. I sail single handed a lot and with a steady wind the autopilot can be set while you work on foredeck. Dropping with the sock equally as easy. I agree with one other comment that A syms not great right downwind if the main is up. I find though that I go just as quick with just the A sym.