Standing Watch in High Crime Anchorage

[Saleen411]

Nice running summary JMH! Thanks for taking. the time in doing so.

Yes, I did read the entire "Boarding With Bad Intentions" thread.....definitely some useful information. ( unfortunately, the 2 Amazon links stated " page not found")

Cheers

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by captainwoody

Pretty sure Colregs 5 only refers to underway, if that's the 'law' you are referring to. But I'm always happy to learn something new if you have another source that shows at anchor.

Captain, the US Coast Guard has published official guidance by means of answering Frequently Asked Questions as to the requirements of keeping a lookout and there are many maritime law court cases establishing precedent for maintanence of a lookouts when at temporary mooring [i.e., at dropped anchor] or attached to a permanent mooring. A lookout must be kept at all times, including when at anchor so as to assist in avoiding a collision or an allusion, including aiding / notifying an approaching vessel from colliding with the anchored boat but also as to having a lookout as to a boat dragging at anchor or swinging at anchor. When your boat is dragging it is considered underway. The lookout is also to assure that the anchored boat is displaying its proper signals [day and night signals] and providing the proper at anchor sound signals when visibility is inhibited.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...ulesFAQ#0.3_12

12. When do I need a Look-out? According to Rule 5, all vessels are responsible for maintaining a proper look-out at all times - this includes one-man crews, unmanned crafts, and recreational boats.

The term look-out implies watching and listening so that he/she is aware of what is happening around the vessel. The emphasis is on performing the action, not on the person. Still, in all but the smallest vessels, the lookout is expected to be an individual who is not the helmsman and is usually located in the forward part of the boat, away from the distractions and noises of the bridge. While no specific location on a vessel is prescribed for the lookout, good navigation requires placement at the point best suited for the purpose of hearing and observing the approach of objects likely to be brought into collision with the vessel.
The size of the vessel and crew effect this answer, however, the emphasis in every legal decision points to the need for a proper, attentive look-out. While the use of radar to evaluate the situation is implied in the requirement to use all available means, that is still understood to be secondary to maintaining a look-out by sight and hearing.

Other references:

Rule5.html

Prevailing Circumstances and Conditions

A proper lookout is that which is sufficient to prevent a collision, without any allowance for good luck, in the prevailing circumstances and conditions. To give substance to this definition, we offer more specific observations:

A lookout in the open ocean can be less intense than one in coastal or inland waters. It cannot, however, be abandoned--midocean collisions do occur.
A lookout on a vessel at anchor is required, with the level of effort depending upon the location of the anchorage, depth of water, type of ground tackle, wind, currents, waves, and so forth. The lookout should determine whether the anchor is dragging and should warn other vessels of the anchored vessel's presence.
The means and methods for maintaining a lookout vary with night and day. At night, lookouts should make greater use of binoculars and radar. Masters should post observers away from the vessel's own lights so as not to impair the night vision of the lookout. During the day and in good visibility, a vessel can be seen at a much greater distance , as indicated by the fact that a masthead light for the largest vessel need be visible for only six miles and for the smallest vessel, only two miles. During daylight, and under the most favorable conditions, the watch officer on a large vessel may perform the lookout alone.
The size and arrangement of a vessel have a direct bearing on the effort required to maintain a proper lookout. On small vessels where there is an unobstructed all-around view and where there is no impairment of night vision, the craft's operator may both steer and keep the lookout. Unobstructed view, simple controls, no distractions, and high maneuverability are important here.
Visibility is generally the key factor in maintaining a proper lookout. As the visibility decreases, the level of effort to maintain a proper lookout increases tremendously. Sight needs to be augmented by hearing, radar, and radiotelephone. Unless you are in the open ocean, you should seek precise navigational information. In the case of low-lying fog, at least one person should be positioned high enough to see over the fog.


https://www.boatingmag.com/anchoring-night/

"There is a solution, but first let’s talk about the importance of a lookout if you plan on anchoring for the evening. Posting an anchor watch is not only prudent; it’s required by law." . . .

"I’ll admit to having left the deck unattended in a quiet, *secluded anchorage. Yet I make it a practice to get up every hour, scan the surroundings, check our angle on the rode and make sure the anchor isn’t dragging.

However, in anchorages subject to boat traffic or where other boats are anchored, it’s a different story. This calls for posting an anchor watch at all times. Other boats are not the only threats. Your own anchor might drag or the rode could break. A sudden storm might threaten the crew’s safety.

The Coast Guard recognizes that not every vessel maintains a lookout while at anchor, but also admonishes skippers and crews who sleep through the night.
“This practice is dangerous, as well as being a violation of basic seamanship law,” the Coast Guard states in a news release directed at Alaskan commercial fishermen. Citations for violations of Rule 5 range upward to $6,500.

Relying solely on radar guard-zone alarms or GPS anchor-watch alarms is not sufficient, says the Coast Guard, though this equipment should still be used to augment your lookout measures.

While it’s the captain’s ultimate responsibility to maintain an anchor watch, the best procedure is to rotate lookout responsibilities. It helps to have a four-man crew, but it can also work with as few as two aboard. In any case, two-hour shifts keep each man alert throughout his watch. To stay awake, set your mobile phone or digital wristwatch to sound an alarm at 15-minute increments."


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/83.35
USA: 33 CFR § 83.35 - Sound signals in restricted visibility (Rule 35).


(g) A vessel at anchor shall at intervals of not more than 1 minute ring the bell rapidly for about 5 seconds. In a vessel of 100 meters or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel. A vessel at anchor may in addition sound three blasts in succession, namely, one short, one prolonged and one short blast, to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel."

While at anchor, ringing the ship’s bell rapidly for about five seconds at intervals of no more than one minute is the primary sound signal for smaller vessels. Larger vessels, those 100m (328ft) or more in length, also use a gong. For these large yachts and ships, the bell is rapidly sounded from the foredeck, and immediately followed by the gong sounded rapidly from the afterdeck, both for about five seconds. In addition, any vessel at anchor can also sound one short, one prolonged and one short blasts as a collision avoidance warning.

There are two classes of working vessels that do not use the bell and gong signals while at anchor. Commercial fishing boats that are fishing while at anchor, and vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver that are carrying out their work while at anchor must use the encumbered vessel sound signal of one prolonged and two short blasts.



Maritime law case apportionment of liability the British ship Clan Mackenzie against the steamer Oregon to recover damages for a collision between the two vessels. The Clan MacKenzie was at anchor.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/158/186/

[Montanan]

Not wanting an unwanted gun thread nor going to debate gun rights or ability of gun owners to defend themselves but will provide hard data points as to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of trained professionals in actual shooting situations. Points to consider when one realizes the extreme number of bullets that go astray of their intend mark and then one has to consider the implications of bullets hitting unintended marks, such as other crew members, other occupants of the anchorage and people ashore.


The Chicago Tribune creates a first-of-its-kind database on all 435 police-involved shootings in Chicago from 2010 through 2015, revealing startling patterns.

Every five days, on average, a Chicago police officer fired a gun at someone.

In 435 shootings over a recent six-year span, officers killed 92 people and wounded 170 others.

Analysis of that data revealed startling patterns about the officers who fired and the people they shot at.

Among the findings:

•At least 2,623 bullets were fired by police in 435 shootings. In 235 of those incidents, officers struck at least one person [and not always striking the person they intended to shoot, e.g., a bystander; in another 200 shootings, officers missed entirely.

The officers who fired weren't rookies but, on average, had almost a decade of experience.

Of the 520 officers who fired their weapons, more than 60 of them did so in more than one incident.



Accuracy with a firearm depends somewhat on training – and the police training is far more extensive, comprehensive and ongoing than anything that would ever be provided for civilians and cruisers, including scenario practices.

https://www.ajc.com/blog/get-schoole...Na4wJVpeu58cM/


And the training is not just in how to use a weapon but how to manage stress in a deadly situation. This is not something that can be mastered in a three-day or three-week class. Yet, even with all of their training, it’s hard for police officers to hit a target and harder still in chaotic conditions. The New York Police Department is the nation’s largest police force and among the best trained, yet its own study showed between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for officers in a gunfight.

The primary purpose of the study was to investigate the effectiveness of academy firearms training, as well as the accuracy of individuals without any handgun firearms experience or training. The results of this study demonstrated that individuals who had completed standard, law enforcement academy firearms training were not more accurate in their shooting than those who had not had any law enforcement handgun training. As well, they were only moderately more accurate than individuals who had minimal firearms and little to no handgun experience …this study's results indicate an alarming need for improved firearms training for officers. Further investigation is suggested to examine the possibility of a skill transfer in weapon manipulation between long-barrel firearms and handguns as well as officer accuracy under combat shooting conditions. The New York Police Department (NYPD) reported an 18-20% degradation of accuracy skills once an officer becomes involved in an actual gunfight (Vila and Morrison, 1994). This suggests that such motor skills are subject to degradation during levels of high stress.

New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report. The police shot and killed 13 people last year. In 2005, officers fired 472 times in the same circumstances, hitting their mark 82 times, for a 17.4 percent hit rate. They shot and killed nine people that year. Bad marksmanship? Police officials and law enforcement experts say no, contending that the number of misses underscores the tense and unpredictable nature of these situations. For example, a 43 percent hit rate for shots fired from zero to six feet might seem low, but at that range it is very likely that something has already gone wrong: perhaps an officer got surprised, or had no cover, or was wrestling with the suspect.

The NYPD reports hit-rate statistics both for officers involved in a gunfight and for officers who shoot at subjects who do not return fire. Between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for gunfights. Between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate in situations in which fire was not returned was 30 percent. Accuracy improves at close range, with officers hitting their targets 37 percent of the time at distances of seven yards or less; at longer ranges, hit rates fall off sharply, to 23 percent.

[Saleen411]

=Montanan;2952161]Not wanting an unwanted gun thread nor going to debate gun rights or ability of gun owners to defend themselves but will provide hard data points as to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of trained professionals in actual shooting situations. Points to consider when one realizes the extreme number of bullets that go astray of their intend mark and then one has to consider the implications of bullets hitting unintended marks, such as other crew members, other occupants of the anchorage and people ashore.

Interesting article....I find it interesting when the news reports on the low accuracy rate of police after firing a ridiculous number of shots at a victim. Obviously the accuracy of a cruiser on a moving boat would probably be far worse......unless firing point blank from one's berth.

Considering accuracy....As a last resort defensive weapon on a yacht, I would think a shortened shotgun would be effective ( where allowed).....probably loaded with non lethal rock salt. At least for the first few loaded rounds.

That's all I should say about guns I suppose. Personal choice right or wrong.

[Franziska]

Ha, this is a joke.
Be it that this is the law, it's still a typical example of laws going completely passed the realities in life.

Apart from some mega yachts you are going to have an incredible hard time finding a yacht following this by the book.

Personally I do not know anyone going anchor watch in a safe anchorage on a calm day.

Typical example of covering your a.. for any conceivable situation there is.

Originally Posted by Montanan

Captain, the US Coast Guard has published official guidance by means of answering Frequently Asked Questions as to the requirements of keeping a lookout and there are many maritime law court cases establishing precedent for maintanence of a lookouts when at temporary mooring [i.e., at dropped anchor] or attached to a permanent mooring. A lookout must be kept at all times, including when at anchor so as to assist in avoiding a collision or an allusion, including aiding / notifying an approaching vessel from colliding with the anchored boat but also as to having a lookout as to a boat dragging at anchor or swinging at anchor. When your boat is dragging it is considered underway. The lookout is also to assure that the anchored boat is displaying its proper signals [day and night signals] and providing the proper at anchor sound signals when visibility is inhibited.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...ulesFAQ#0.3_12

12. When do I need a Look-out? According to Rule 5, all vessels are responsible for maintaining a proper look-out at all times - this includes one-man crews, unmanned crafts, and recreational boats.

The term look-out implies watching and listening so that he/she is aware of what is happening around the vessel. The emphasis is on performing the action, not on the person. Still, in all but the smallest vessels, the lookout is expected to be an individual who is not the helmsman and is usually located in the forward part of the boat, away from the distractions and noises of the bridge. While no specific location on a vessel is prescribed for the lookout, good navigation requires placement at the point best suited for the purpose of hearing and observing the approach of objects likely to be brought into collision with the vessel.
The size of the vessel and crew effect this answer, however, the emphasis in every legal decision points to the need for a proper, attentive look-out. While the use of radar to evaluate the situation is implied in the requirement to use all available means, that is still understood to be secondary to maintaining a look-out by sight and hearing.

Other references:

Rule5.html

Prevailing Circumstances and Conditions

A proper lookout is that which is sufficient to prevent a collision, without any allowance for good luck, in the prevailing circumstances and conditions. To give substance to this definition, we offer more specific observations:

A lookout in the open ocean can be less intense than one in coastal or inland waters. It cannot, however, be abandoned--midocean collisions do occur.
A lookout on a vessel at anchor is required, with the level of effort depending upon the location of the anchorage, depth of water, type of ground tackle, wind, currents, waves, and so forth. The lookout should determine whether the anchor is dragging and should warn other vessels of the anchored vessel's presence.
The means and methods for maintaining a lookout vary with night and day. At night, lookouts should make greater use of binoculars and radar. Masters should post observers away from the vessel's own lights so as not to impair the night vision of the lookout. During the day and in good visibility, a vessel can be seen at a much greater distance , as indicated by the fact that a masthead light for the largest vessel need be visible for only six miles and for the smallest vessel, only two miles. During daylight, and under the most favorable conditions, the watch officer on a large vessel may perform the lookout alone.
The size and arrangement of a vessel have a direct bearing on the effort required to maintain a proper lookout. On small vessels where there is an unobstructed all-around view and where there is no impairment of night vision, the craft's operator may both steer and keep the lookout. Unobstructed view, simple controls, no distractions, and high maneuverability are important here.
Visibility is generally the key factor in maintaining a proper lookout. As the visibility decreases, the level of effort to maintain a proper lookout increases tremendously. Sight needs to be augmented by hearing, radar, and radiotelephone. Unless you are in the open ocean, you should seek precise navigational information. In the case of low-lying fog, at least one person should be positioned high enough to see over the fog.


https://www.boatingmag.com/anchoring-night/

"There is a solution, but first let’s talk about the importance of a lookout if you plan on anchoring for the evening. Posting an anchor watch is not only prudent; it’s required by law." . . .

"I’ll admit to having left the deck unattended in a quiet, *secluded anchorage. Yet I make it a practice to get up every hour, scan the surroundings, check our angle on the rode and make sure the anchor isn’t dragging.

However, in anchorages subject to boat traffic or where other boats are anchored, it’s a different story. This calls for posting an anchor watch at all times. Other boats are not the only threats. Your own anchor might drag or the rode could break. A sudden storm might threaten the crew’s safety.

The Coast Guard recognizes that not every vessel maintains a lookout while at anchor, but also admonishes skippers and crews who sleep through the night.
“This practice is dangerous, as well as being a violation of basic seamanship law,” the Coast Guard states in a news release directed at Alaskan commercial fishermen. Citations for violations of Rule 5 range upward to $6,500.

Relying solely on radar guard-zone alarms or GPS anchor-watch alarms is not sufficient, says the Coast Guard, though this equipment should still be used to augment your lookout measures.

While it’s the captain’s ultimate responsibility to maintain an anchor watch, the best procedure is to rotate lookout responsibilities. It helps to have a four-man crew, but it can also work with as few as two aboard. In any case, two-hour shifts keep each man alert throughout his watch. To stay awake, set your mobile phone or digital wristwatch to sound an alarm at 15-minute increments."


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/83.35
USA: 33 CFR § 83.35 - Sound signals in restricted visibility (Rule 35).


(g) A vessel at anchor shall at intervals of not more than 1 minute ring the bell rapidly for about 5 seconds. In a vessel of 100 meters or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel. A vessel at anchor may in addition sound three blasts in succession, namely, one short, one prolonged and one short blast, to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel."

While at anchor, ringing the ship’s bell rapidly for about five seconds at intervals of no more than one minute is the primary sound signal for smaller vessels. Larger vessels, those 100m (328ft) or more in length, also use a gong. For these large yachts and ships, the bell is rapidly sounded from the foredeck, and immediately followed by the gong sounded rapidly from the afterdeck, both for about five seconds. In addition, any vessel at anchor can also sound one short, one prolonged and one short blasts as a collision avoidance warning.

There are two classes of working vessels that do not use the bell and gong signals while at anchor. Commercial fishing boats that are fishing while at anchor, and vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver that are carrying out their work while at anchor must use the encumbered vessel sound signal of one prolonged and two short blasts.



Maritime law case apportionment of liability the British ship Clan Mackenzie against the steamer Oregon to recover damages for a collision between the two vessels. The Clan MacKenzie was at anchor.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/158/186/

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The situation varies from one country to the next. You may find this thread instructive: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ntry-1641.html


There are many people from the USA who lawfully have firearms on board for a journey to the Bahamas and back. Beyond that, check-in procedures would be unpredictable, and there are countries that you could not visit with firearms aboard. There are enough of these to complicate a trip, among them:


* Mexico
* Dominica
* Martinique
* Colombia


Since essentially none of the Caribbean countries allow you to have firearms out and available for use, the only value in bringing them would be to have them while on the high seas.


The USA and Canada are, I believe, the only nations that treat an AK-47 any differently from the sort of large-magazine, open choke shotguns that are typically carried for self defense.

Thank you very much, I appreciate your response and information.

And thank you very much Gord for spending the time to put together such a comprehensive list. So it appears the vast majority of the places we plan to visit, our firearms just need to be declared and stored in a secure locker which we have onboard. I’ll be looking more closely at this option before departure.

Cheers

Ken

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Ha, this is a joke.
Be it that this is the law, it's still a typical example of laws going completely passed the realities in life.

Apart from some mega yachts you are going to have an incredible hard time finding a yacht following this by the book.

Personally I do not know anyone going anchor watch in a safe anchorage on a calm day.

Typical example of covering your a.. for any conceivable situation there is.

Yes the degree of watch keeping does depend on the prevailing Circumstances and Conditions. As was stated:

A proper lookout is that which is sufficient to prevent a collision, without any allowance for good luck, in the prevailing circumstances and conditions. To give substance to this definition, we offer more specific observations:

A lookout in the open ocean can be less intense than one in coastal or inland waters. It cannot, however, be abandoned--midocean collisions do occur.
A lookout on a vessel at anchor is required, with the level of effort depending upon the location of the anchorage, depth of water, type of ground tackle, wind, currents, waves, and so forth. The lookout should determine whether the anchor is dragging and should warn other vessels of the anchored vessel's presence.
The means and methods for maintaining a lookout vary with night and day.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

Nice running summary JMH! Thanks for taking. the time in doing so.

Yes, I did read the entire "Boarding With Bad Intentions" thread.....definitely some useful information. ( unfortunately, the 2 Amazon links stated " page not found")

Cheers

Your welcome. It was a lot of work but otherwise the information just seems to get lost in a long thread. And it's personally interesting to me too because I would like to return to Caribbean cruising at some point.

There were 1 or 2 or maybe 3 things to add I think. One of them being the 'dazzling flashlight' as an extra deterrent.

As I mentioned in the previous post, unfortunately the links are broken because someone closed the old thread, but if you click through to the old post here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2937313 then all the links work from there.

The two Amazon links are:

https://www.amazon.com/GLW-Waterproo...sr=1-8-catcorr

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Contin...oding=UTF8&me=

Both of those look like they could be carried with you and mounted temporarily.

I think someone else posted another option earlier in your thread here too though.

[Franziska]

Does this mean you are really doing this????

Originally Posted by Montanan

Yes the degree of watch keeping does depend on the prevailing Circumstances and Conditions. As was stated:

A proper lookout is that which is sufficient to prevent a collision, without any allowance for good luck, in the prevailing circumstances and conditions. To give substance to this definition, we offer more specific observations:

A lookout in the open ocean can be less intense than one in coastal or inland waters. It cannot, however, be abandoned--midocean collisions do occur.
A lookout on a vessel at anchor is required, with the level of effort depending upon the location of the anchorage, depth of water, type of ground tackle, wind, currents, waves, and so forth. The lookout should determine whether the anchor is dragging and should warn other vessels of the anchored vessel's presence.
The means and methods for maintaining a lookout vary with night and day.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Your welcome. It was a lot of work but otherwise the information just seems to get lost in a long thread. And it's personally interesting to me too because I would like to return to Caribbean cruising at some point.

There were 1 or 2 or maybe 3 things to add I think. One of them being the 'dazzling flashlight' as an extra deterrent.

As I mentioned in the previous post, unfortunately the links are broken because someone closed the old thread, but if you click through to the old post here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2937313 then all the links work from there.

The two Amazon links are:

https://www.amazon.com/GLW-Waterproo...sr=1-8-catcorr

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Contin...oding=UTF8&me=

Both of those look like they could be carried with you and mounted temporarily.

I think someone else posted another option earlier in your thread here too though.

Ditto on the thanks. Perhaps you should make it a sticky?

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Ditto on the thanks. Perhaps you should make it a sticky?

Good idea, I guess mods need to do that?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Does this mean you are really doing this????

Not always but when I don't something like this unexpected boarding happens.

https://gph.is/1gcRxkf

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Not wanting an unwanted gun thread nor going to debate gun rights or ability of gun owners to defend themselves but will provide hard data points as to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of trained professionals in actual shooting situations. Points to consider when one realizes the extreme number of bullets that go astray of their intend mark and then one has to consider the implications of bullets hitting unintended marks, such as other crew members, other occupants of the anchorage and people ashore.


The Chicago Tribune creates a first-of-its-kind database on all 435 police-involved shootings in Chicago from 2010 through 2015, revealing startling patterns.

Every five days, on average, a Chicago police officer fired a gun at someone.

In 435 shootings over a recent six-year span, officers killed 92 people and wounded 170 others.

Analysis of that data revealed startling patterns about the officers who fired and the people they shot at.

Among the findings:

•At least 2,623 bullets were fired by police in 435 shootings. In 235 of those incidents, officers struck at least one person [and not always striking the person they intended to shoot, e.g., a bystander; in another 200 shootings, officers missed entirely.

The officers who fired weren't rookies but, on average, had almost a decade of experience.

Of the 520 officers who fired their weapons, more than 60 of them did so in more than one incident.



Accuracy with a firearm depends somewhat on training – and the police training is far more extensive, comprehensive and ongoing than anything that would ever be provided for civilians and cruisers, including scenario practices.

https://www.ajc.com/blog/get-schoole...Na4wJVpeu58cM/


And the training is not just in how to use a weapon but how to manage stress in a deadly situation. This is not something that can be mastered in a three-day or three-week class. Yet, even with all of their training, it’s hard for police officers to hit a target and harder still in chaotic conditions. The New York Police Department is the nation’s largest police force and among the best trained, yet its own study showed between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for officers in a gunfight.

The primary purpose of the study was to investigate the effectiveness of academy firearms training, as well as the accuracy of individuals without any handgun firearms experience or training. The results of this study demonstrated that individuals who had completed standard, law enforcement academy firearms training were not more accurate in their shooting than those who had not had any law enforcement handgun training. As well, they were only moderately more accurate than individuals who had minimal firearms and little to no handgun experience …this study's results indicate an alarming need for improved firearms training for officers. Further investigation is suggested to examine the possibility of a skill transfer in weapon manipulation between long-barrel firearms and handguns as well as officer accuracy under combat shooting conditions. The New York Police Department (NYPD) reported an 18-20% degradation of accuracy skills once an officer becomes involved in an actual gunfight (Vila and Morrison, 1994). This suggests that such motor skills are subject to degradation during levels of high stress.

New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report. The police shot and killed 13 people last year. In 2005, officers fired 472 times in the same circumstances, hitting their mark 82 times, for a 17.4 percent hit rate. They shot and killed nine people that year. Bad marksmanship? Police officials and law enforcement experts say no, contending that the number of misses underscores the tense and unpredictable nature of these situations. For example, a 43 percent hit rate for shots fired from zero to six feet might seem low, but at that range it is very likely that something has already gone wrong: perhaps an officer got surprised, or had no cover, or was wrestling with the suspect.

The NYPD reports hit-rate statistics both for officers involved in a gunfight and for officers who shoot at subjects who do not return fire. Between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for gunfights. Between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate in situations in which fire was not returned was 30 percent. Accuracy improves at close range, with officers hitting their targets 37 percent of the time at distances of seven yards or less; at longer ranges, hit rates fall off sharply, to 23 percent.

The other issue we faced with Coast Guard boarding teams and a cruiser would face even more is recency of experience, not just total experience. Turns out you have to practice regularly, the number of rounds you've fired over your lifetime is surprisingly significantly less relevant than how many rounds you've fired in the past 90 days, although both are important.

And yeah, it's pretty damn hard to hit something from the unstable platform of a boat, without even going into the issues of working in confined spaces. We used to joke that the safest place to be when they were holding small arms practice on a barrel floating on the water off the side of the boat was in the barrel!

[Dan Mosby]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

hide in the dark ready to pounce

This is my preference: Interior lit while I pull securitry from darkness somewhere on the deck.


While opportunistic criminals prefer darkness, by lighting up the watch area you will ruin your night vision and be less likely to spot an approaching target. With lights out, you're more likely to be targeted, but also more likely to spot the target and light it up in the darkness due to not ruining your night vision. You DO have a massive high powered hand-held spotlight, yes?

Originally Posted by Saleen411

Have any of you stood watch before because you just happen to be in a known high crime area.

All the time. On land and sea.

Most....and this is a huge generalization here, anyways, MOST opportunistic crime is preceded by SOME kind of "reconnaisance" of the potential target. They may do a simple pass by and give you a look over, they may approach and ask you for something seemingly insignificant, whatever. By standing watch / pulling security and looking the bastards right in the eye with harmful intent, you can usually steer them away to an easier target.

This has worked for me all over the planet. But I'm not you.

Do what you think is best.

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by Dan Mosby

This is my preference: Interior lit while I pull securitry from darkness somewhere on the deck.


While opportunistic criminals prefer darkness, by lighting up the watch area you will ruin your night vision and be less likely to spot an approaching target. With lights out, you're more likely to be targeted, but also more likely to spot the target and light it up in the darkness due to not ruining your night vision. You DO have a massive high powered hand-held spotlight, yes?



All the time. On land and sea.

Most....and this is a huge generalization here, anyways, MOST opportunistic crime is preceded by SOME kind of "reconnaisance" of the potential target. They may do a simple pass by and give you a look over, they may approach and ask you for something seemingly insignificant, whatever. By standing watch / pulling security and looking the bastards right in the eye with harmful intent, you can usually steer them away to an easier target.

This has worked for me all over the planet. But I'm not you.

Do what you think is best.

Thanks for your direct answers.....

What you say makes perfect sense.

And YES, i believe a spotlight is essential.