Starlink and the future of communication at sea

[Dave_S]

If every internet provider sticks up 7800 satellites in low orbit we'll be dodging crashing space junk everyday. This is another part of OUR world that someone else has decided to turn into a dump. This idiot sent one of his cars into space..... a car FFS.

[B23iL23]

Would you have preferred that he send up a ton of concrete instead... like other
rocket manufacturers do?

Originally Posted by Dave_S

This idiot sent one of his cars into space..... a car FFS.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Would you have preferred that he send up a ton of concrete instead... like other
rocket manufacturers do?

No, maybe water or something else that would dissipate and not be space junk, if you see someone throw a plastic bottle overboard at your favourite anchoring spot, how do you feel about that. I see this guy as much worse. He could have used something non polluting but he chose a car that will orbit in our solar system for ever, actually until it crashes and litters another planet.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I don't know where you are getting 'anywhere in the world' from these satellites. The Starlink system consists of low altitude satellites, these do not have a large foot print on the ground. Middle of the Pacific it is very unlikely that you will be in the path of one of these. It takes 800 satellites to cover the US, and the Pacific is a lot bigger.

Is there anything more fun to read than a snarky response that's factually wrong. Don't worry Paul, I've got your back. Just watch the original link I sent. If we love the water, we're all on the same side here.

Starlink satellites are NOT geostationary. They use overlapping orbits and laser handoff between them to share data. As such, you WILL have high speed internet ANYWHERE in the world (well... there may be limitations in the extremely far north and south lattitudes). Boats will communicate with these satellites with phase array antennas with internal electronic gyroscopes to handle motion much faster than gimbals could.

Again, it's just one more tool should people elect to use it. For me, the ability to earn income while at sea means I'd be able to transition to full timer earlier in my life. My parents are older and I'd love to be able to "see" them weekly rather than on 4-5 visits per year. Hell, can you imagine video chat rooms filled with boat owners of your exact model who can share advice?

[hellosailor]

I wouldn't hold my breath.
Yes, after HOW many years, Tesla has turned a quarterly profit--by such rampant juggling that their battery partner (Panasonic) had to take a loss to fill orders. And, the base Model 3 that they pushed, hasn't been sold at all. Only the upgraded versions. With the federal tax credit ($7500) for the Model 3 expiring now, many of those backorders may be cancelled.
But the article says "And that’s the plan. Elon Musk’s company wants to initially deploy 800 satellites in low Earth orbit, in order to cover “initial U.S. and international coverage.” Then it wants to throw over 7,000 more into the sky at “Very Low Earth Orbit” (VLEO, in this case around 211 miles up) to fill in the blanks as needed."
OK, roughly 8000 satellites to make it all happen. And he's doing that by tagging two satellites along as supercargo on a paid launch? That means, he'd need 4000 launches to get his own satellites up there. A launch a day, and that's still ten years of launching. Hmmm....
Then there's also some international conferring going on now, about "too much stuff" and space junk and needing to clear out the hotly contested orbital paths. Elon had better start armoring his satellites and sending up Roomba's ahead of them, to make sure they can stay there.
Nice concept...but the man has a poor record on actual long-term fulfillment.

I especially love his "invention" of high speed underground transit tunnels. I htink Jules Verne wrote about a transatlantic one, yes, THAT long ago. And NYC's first subway car (and stations) were built as a pneumatic tube, proving the same concept over a hundred years ago. But, Elon has this great new idea. (I'd like to see him figure out how to tunnel under the streets if NYC or any other major urban area, where utilities and other tubes already may extend 50-100 feet under all the streets, and there are no clear entry or exit staging areas.)
No, I'd buy what's on the shelf now. I give Elon credit for imagination, but I wouldn't want my "life safety equipment" to have his fingerprints on it. Not yet.

[B23iL23]

Wrong (in so many ways). These are not big sats. Each launch will have up to 40 in a dispenser and possibly up to 80. That's max 20 launches to get the initial 800 in place.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

...nd he's doing that by tagging two satellites along as supercargo on a paid launch? That means, he'd need 4000 launches to get his own satellites up there. A launch a day, and that's still ten years of launching. Hmmm....
Then there's also some international conferring going on now, about "too much stuff" and space junk and needing to clear out the hotly contested orbital paths. Elon had better start armoring his satellites and sending up Roomba's ahead of them, to make sure they can stay there.
Nice concept...but the man has a poor record on actual long-term fulfillment.

I especially love his "invention" of high speed underground transit tunnels. I htink Jules Verne wrote about a transatlantic one, yes, THAT long ago. And NYC's first subway car (and stations) were built as a pneumatic tube, proving the same concept over a hundred years ago. But, Elon has this great new idea. (I'd like to see him figure out how to tunnel under the streets if NYC or any other major urban area, where utilities and other tubes already may extend 50-100 feet under all the streets, and there are no clear entry or exit staging areas.)
No, I'd buy what's on the shelf now. I give Elon credit for imagination, but I wouldn't want my "life safety equipment" to have his fingerprints on it. Not yet.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Is there anything more fun to read than a snarky response that's factually wrong. Don't worry Paul, I've got your back. Just watch the original link I sent. If we love the water, we're all on the same side here.

Starlink satellites are NOT geostationary. They use overlapping orbits and laser handoff between them to share data. As such, you WILL have high speed internet ANYWHERE in the world (well... there may be limitations in the extremely far north and south lattitudes). Boats will communicate with these satellites with phase array antennas with internal electronic gyroscopes to handle motion much faster than gimbals could.

Again, it's just one more tool should people elect to use it. For me, the ability to earn income while at sea means I'd be able to transition to full timer earlier in my life. My parents are older and I'd love to be able to "see" them weekly rather than on 4-5 visits per year. Hell, can you imagine video chat rooms filled with boat owners of your exact model who can share advice?

Hay, I'd love to see the coverage map showing the coverage between the Galapagos and French Polynesia. I'll let you have the last snark when you show me the actual coverage in 5 years.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I wouldn't hold my breath.

No, I'd buy what's on the shelf now. I give Elon credit for imagination, but I wouldn't want my "life safety equipment" to have his fingerprints on it. Not yet.

Ugh... so many wrong things here. But rest assured, no on thinks high speed internet access is life safety equipment.

Since this isn't an auto-site nor a financial site, I'll keep it short and just say that everyone was claiming Tesla would run out of cash and they are in fantastic shape and now that the reinvestment for model 3 tooling and process is done, it's only gonna get better.

As Kevin stated, these are tiny satellites and will be able to launch in large quantities. This kind of network could be $30Billion in profit for Tesla where launches would total about $5Billion. This is his plan to fund Mars travel. It's happening.

As for the tunnels you mock... I'm based in LA and will be riding in one soon. As a novelty and proof of concept, yes, but it is happening. Your example of Manhattan not being suitable is silly as this IS a solution for cities like LA, Boston, Chicago, and so many others.

But what does that have to do with Starlink? Doesn't his track record with Tesla and SpaceX speak for itself? Questioning if it is feasible or likely to happen seems fair, but wouldn't a technical analysis of such bring more value to this discussion that superficial comments not vetted by due diligence?

Sailing has always been evolving. You know damn well when John Harrison invented the marine chronometer to solve longitude, some salty old sailor complained about how unnecessary it was and anyone who used it wasn't a "real" sailor.

[Pizzazz]

Star link will be great. A pizza sized antenna is perfect for a boat. Even Iridium Next will be pretty good for most of us. Not to mention that the majority of our communication on land today is via sms and messaging (Viber/Messenger) which you can easily do today with Inreach, including weather. I am curious how many people will spend $5,000 on a Certus terminal to be able to do FaceTime when you can do unlimited messaging today with a terminal that costs $300.

I am a satellite convert (from SSB) and while I enjoy playing around with my radio the future is pretty clear.

SV Pizzazz

[a64pilot]

Someone will do something eventually to make Global Internet a reality.
However I doubt it will be Elon Musk
That is just my personal belief, and I doubt that I will see Global Satellite access, as much as I’d like to.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Hay, I'd love to see the coverage map showing the coverage between the Galapagos and French Polynesia. I'll let you have the last snark when you show me the actual coverage in 5 years.

Of course, anything could happen between now and rollout. But this isn't like some fanboy dream. Real engineers are building it out. Two test satellites are already up. They are coordinating with NASA and other agencies to move everything forward. Launches are already contracted for other payloads with excess capacity for more satellites.

As for coverage... you really aren't understanding the technology. The orbital overlap needed for Africa and Asia will essentially be the same as those satellites hit the Pacific side. Unless you're a flat-earther!

Here's the coverage map. Pretty sure French Polynesia will be just fine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKN...ature=youtu.be

[GordMay]

There are currently 1,886 operating satellites orbiting Earth in total, among more than 4,000 overall, including those that are no longer operating, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists.
➥ https://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-weapo...e#.W92HtTEpDIX

SpaceX wants to create a giant constellation of nearly 12,000 “Starlink” LEO satellites. That's roughly a tripling of the current current count, and more satellites than have ever been launched in all of space history.

In addition to the 4,425 satellites (about 700 miles up) approved by the FCC, SpaceX has also proposed an additional 7,500 satellites operating even closer to the ground (about 200 miles up), saying that this will boost capacity and reduce latency in heavily populated areas.

If we add (some of Starlink’s potential competitors) like: Samsung, Boeing, OneWeb, Telesat LEO, SES O3B, Iridium Next and LeoSat to the mix, we can expect the skies to get a whole lot more crowded.

I dread to think “Kessler Syndrome”. ➥ http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/s...sler-syndrome/

[Chenega]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Of course, anything could happen between now and rollout. But this isn't like some fanboy dream. Real engineers are building it out. Two test satellites are already up. They are coordinating with NASA and other agencies to move everything forward. Launches are already contracted for other payloads with excess capacity for more satellites.



As for coverage... you really aren't understanding the technology. The orbital overlap needed for Africa and Asia will essentially be the same as those satellites hit the Pacific side. Unless you're a flat-earther!



Here's the coverage map. Pretty sure French Polynesia will be just fine!

You have to wonder how satellite crashes can be avoided ... currently 47000 satellites flying and adding this many more? Wow, I know it’s a big area up there but I hope they do their math right! 🧐

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Of course, anything could happen between now and rollout. But this isn't like some fanboy dream. Real engineers are building it out. Two test satellites are already up. They are coordinating with NASA and other agencies to move everything forward. Launches are already contracted for other payloads with excess capacity for more satellites.

As for coverage... you really aren't understanding the technology. The orbital overlap needed for Africa and Asia will essentially be the same as those satellites hit the Pacific side. Unless you're a flat-earther!

Here's the coverage map. Pretty sure French Polynesia will be just fine!

Well maybe when they get to Phase 3 the offshore areas will be decently covered. I'm gonna hold off getting rid of my current offshore communications for at least a few more months😐

[hellosailor]

"Well maybe when they get to Phase 3 the offshore areas will be decently covered."

Guys, Musk made it clear that the system will need some 8000 satellites, only 200 of which will be in high geostationary orbit, i.e. "over" some fixed spot. The vast majority will be whizzing around the globe in low earth orbit, which means there will be no "decently covered" areas, the entire globe (except perhaps the poles) will ALL BE COVERED ALL THE TIME.

So for his plan to work, somebody has to figure out how to launch 8000 satellites. (I know, he calls for somewhat less, but let's add the failed launches and a few spares and make the math easy. No one, not even NASA or the USAF or the Russians gets a 100% successful launch rate.)

Musk has yet to FULLY deliver on any of his dream schemes, hasn't he? "Close" counts in horseshoes, but not so much in satellite systems.