State Sen. Kehoe Drops Anti Fouling Paint Bill

[MarkSF]

I believe at least a temporary solution is hard, copper-based coatings with low leach rates. I thought these were being introduced anyway?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

I believe at least a temporary solution is hard, copper-based coatings with low leach rates. I thought these were being introduced anyway?

The paint manufacturer's lobbyists had successfully amended SB 623 to allow the continued use of copper in low leach rate paints. The Dept. of Pesticide Regulation is requiring all anti fouling products be re-evaluated, with an eye towards determining what the low leach rate would be. Now that SB 623 is dead, I don't know what happens with that, if anything.

[S/V Blondie-Dog]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

There has to be some type of coating that would be better for boat hulls. Researchers need to look into how to make a coating that doesn't get fouled. Teflon, Silicone, plastics, we should be able to create something.

Hmmm... me thinks that MIT's new "LiquidGlide", a "non-toxic coating made from food materials" just might have an application here in minimizing bottom fouling.

Surely you've seen the new ketchup bottle and of its contents sliding completely on out of the bottle without so much as a gently tap. Hey... ya never know.

[SunDevil]

I never put those two ideas together. Sounds like boats would be a much bigger market than glass ketchup bottles. Hopefully it could be applied as a clear coat just like auto paints have for new cars.

[fstbttms]

Today I participated in the quarterly meeting of the Marina Inter Agency Coordinating Committee where it was announced by a member of Senator Kehoe's staff that SB 623 will be reintroduced in the near future by an as yet unnamed legislator, who shares her committment to reduce copper in our coastal waterways.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Today I participated in the quarterly meeting of the Marina Inter Agency Coordinating Committee where it was announced by a member of Senator Kehoe's staff that SB 623 will be reintroduced in the near future by an as yet unnamed legislator, who shares her committment to reduce copper in our coastal waterways.

Sounds less than convincing. They will say anything to temporarily placate an unhappy group of people.

[capn_billl]

I'm good with a hard coating that has a low leech rate. But banning the only legal substance we now have, that works, is insane.

Want to eliminate copper? Bring back tin.

Show me a single dead fish that was killed by tin. Tin used to be a common metal for cooking utensils, to my knowledge no one ever died from it. With the correct pricing, and low leech compositions, having half the boats using tin, and half using the cheaper copper, both metals will have low levels. Ban one and you double the concentration of the other.

Are they trying to clean up the enviroment? Or ban recreational boating?

Thousands of boats much bigger than mine can paint themselves with whatever they choose in another country, like China, and park at the port just a few miles from my dock.

Do we want to stop all freighters, and military ships at the 12 mile line? And force them to stay there until we get results from a sample of their paint?

I don't see that happening, we can't even afford to ask them to stop long enough to find out if they have a nuke aboard.

Want to clean up our harbors??? Mercury concentrations are much higher than any detected copper levels. Mercury is the most toxic metal known to man. Thanks to effort by dedicated enviromentalists, we are now forced by law to change from mercury free incandescant bulbs to mercury containing CFL's. Thus adding thousands of times more Mercury to our waste stream, as there is now, no system in place to insure all of these mercury bulbs are safely recycled, (and there is no way to recover the Mercury if the bulbs break).

Most of these bulbs will be tossed in the trash, and end up in a landfill where they will be compacted, and crushed, releasing the Mercury to leech out into our rivers and join the millions of tons of Mercury contaminated industrial waste that is sitting in the bottom of our Bays.

[fstbttms]

Reduce copper in our waterways by bringing back one of the most toxic substances ever intentionally introduced to the marine environment? Brilliant.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Thousands of boats much bigger than mine can paint themselves with whatever they choose in another country, like China, and park at the port just a few miles from my dock.

China has ratified the ban on TbT anti fouling paints (which means even they have a more intelligent, progressive position on this than you do) so your argument is invalid.

[minaret]

I am flabbergasted when people call it "tin" or "copper" paint. Tributyl tin is not the same as tin, and cuprous oxide is not the same as copper. Just because you can eat food from a "tin" can doesn't mean Tributyl tin is not toxic. It's just moronic.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Want to clean up our harbors??? Mercury concentrations are much higher than any detected copper levels. Mercury is the most toxic metal known to man. Thanks to effort by dedicated enviromentalists, we are now forced by law to change from mercury free incandescant bulbs to mercury containing CFL's. Thus adding thousands of times more Mercury to our waste stream, as there is now, no system in place to insure all of these mercury bulbs are safely recycled, (and there is no way to recover the Mercury if the bulbs break).

Most of these bulbs will be tossed in the trash, and end up in a landfill where they will be compacted, and crushed, releasing the Mercury to leech out into our rivers and join the millions of tons of Mercury contaminated industrial waste that is sitting in the bottom of our Bays.

The amount of mercury released into the air by the power plants is a lot higher than the amount in CFL light bulbs. There are also non-compact tube florescence light bulbs in millions of offices that have more mercury in them, but nobody complains about them. LEDs are the way to go though, except for the price.

[roverhi]

Yes, and the mercury given off by coal plants doesn't seem to be a problem. It's so well dispersed that it doesn't come near dangerous levels. If it did, the EPA wouldn't be trying to strangle the coal electrical generating industry but shoot it on the spot.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

The amount of mercury released into the air by the power plants is a lot higher than the amount in CFL light bulbs. There are also non-compact tube florescence light bulbs in millions of offices that have more mercury in them, but nobody complains about them. .

Three things: 1. Most offices have a program in place to insure they are properly disposed of. 2. They also are a significant source of enviromental Mercury when not properly disposed. 3. There are many more homes than offices. 100's of Millions of CFL's dropped in the curbside trash is going to be a much greater impact than thousands of offices.

AND the final arbritor is. What can we do so I can eat a fish I caught in a local bay without adding to my Mercury levels. It's not that no one is complaining about any particular Mercury source, it is that most of the sources haven't been publically announced.

[Knowazark]

If copper in waterways is the problem, then the intelligent solution involves controlling the discharge of copper at the source.

Boats with copper based antifouling contribute to the localised copper concentrations in sediments and water (mostly restricted to marina basins), however, my experience in NZ suggests that copper sourced from stormwater and wastewater discharges over a considerably larger area contributes a much greater mass of copper into the marine environment and tends to result in a widespread increase over large areas.

Copper is a component of brake and clutch friction materials, is a component of plumbing fixtures, fittings and pipework and is a major contaminant of urban stormwater. Every time it rains a significant amount of copper is washed off the roads, roofs and other impermeable urban surfaces into the stormwater system and ultimately into the marine environment.

If you're serious about controlling copper contamination then you need to control all sources of copper entering the marine environment. Antifouling on boats is one target area, but there are many more.

[roverhi]

Most of the sources are naturally occuring in Fish. They tested preserved fish flesh that was a century old and found similar levels of mercury as currently caught fish.