Storm boards for windows

[Drew13440]

What would be the best way to capture the bolts in the teak? If possible, I'd like a solution where repeatedly removing and installing the bolts wouldn't lead to the holes eventually becoming unusable.

You really needn't worry about this. If you use self-tapping screws to attach to your teak strips, the holes can be shimmed as necessary pretty well into perpetuity.

You do this by inserting tooth pick sized wood strips into the holes and cutting them flush with a pocket knife. The screw threads will bite like new, every time.

[double u]

don't drill Lexan/polycarb if you haven't done it before!!!

[Ryban]

I have to pick and choose my battles, and this is one of those projects I'm going to have a professional do, purely because of my lack of tools and workspace.

To the person who suggested acrylic over polycarbonate, what are your reasons? I thought polycarbonate was stronger, cheaper, and less prone to cracking.

[Copacabana]

Well, lexan is used for bullet-proof windows, so it's great for point impact resistance. I prefer acrylic as it stands up better to UV, doesn't scratch as easily and is stiffer (perhaps it also expands and contracts less with temperature variations). It's also cheaper and easy to find. You can find a sign shop just about anywhere that works with it.
I may be wrong about all this- perhaps there are new lexans that have better UV protection and scratch-resistant coatings.

So, are you going to go for the oversized, through-bolted windows after all? I think you'll find it looks nice and gives your boat a "shippy" look as well.

[Ryban]

Hmm. I'll do my homework then and see what I come up with. I'll also have to see what my options are with the materials available on-island.

Yeah, I've decided to just replace the old windows with oversized plastic ones -- at least the two big ones. I'm going to leave the 4 smaller ones as-is. Part of my motivation was that the old windows are a bit leaky, and I was going to have to replace the rubber gaskets that hold them in place anyway.

This solution means my windows will always be storm-ready and leak free. The one big disadvantage is huge number of holes I'm going to have to drill through the hull.

[Copacabana]

Well, you can always pot the holes with thickened epoxy if you're worried about the core of the cabin sides.

Are you going to bed the windows with butyl?

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

Well, you can always pot the holes with thickened epoxy if you're worried about the core of the cabin sides.

Are you going to bed the windows with butyl?

The guy who did his Vega windows this way used Sika flex, and just hand-tightened the screws as to avoid cracking the plastic. The adhesive is what really holds the windows on.

I'd probably want to bed the holes with something if the deck is indeed cored in this section. I just hope it doesn't rain for the few days it will take to do this project...

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

Well, lexan is used for bullet-proof windows, so it's great for point impact resistance. I prefer acrylic as it stands up better to UV, doesn't scratch as easily and is stiffer (perhaps it also expands and contracts less with temperature variations). It's also cheaper and easy to find. You can find a sign shop just about anywhere that works with it.
I may be wrong about all this- perhaps there are new lexans that have better UV protection and scratch-resistant coatings.

Exhaustive research led me to the same conclusion. I opted for acrylic windows on my Vega, using the no-fastener method (3M VHB tape in combination with Dow Corning 795). I used 1/4" material, but in hindsight I wish I'd gone with 3/8" (1cm). I remain confident that acrylic was the right material though. I may pull off the two large windows before we cut the lines and replace them with 3/8". Good way to test the adhesion method, too!

FWIW, the only things I used to cut and shape the windows was a $40 jigsaw and sandpaper.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by dixiedawg

Exhaustive research led me to the same conclusion. I opted for acrylic windows on my Vega, using the no-fastener method (3M VHB tape in combination with Dow Corning 795). I used 1/4" material, but in hindsight I wish I'd gone with 3/8" (1cm). I remain confident that acrylic was the right material though. I may pull off the two large windows before we cut the lines and replace them with 3/8". Good way to test the adhesion method, too!

FWIW, the only things I used to cut and shape the windows was a $40 jigsaw and sandpaper.

And it looks GREAT! A nice job indeed.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by geoleo

LEXAN hazes and scratches far more easily than polycarbonate/acrlic

Originally Posted by Ryban

I will consider it. The main issue is that the polycarbonate -- if I can even source it around here -- will need to be drilled and cut by someone else as I lack the appropriate tools on the boat. I don't carry a drill press or band saw with me in my travels.

Originally Posted by Ryban

I have to pick and choose my battles, and this is one of those projects I'm going to have a professional do, purely because of my lack of tools and workspace.

To the person who suggested acrylic over polycarbonate, what are your reasons? I thought polycarbonate was stronger, cheaper, and less prone to cracking.

A few comments based on having worked with both materials.

1) "Lexan" is a brand of polycarbonate. There are other competing brands that are cheaper and, in my experience, more widely available.

2) The advantages of polycarbonate over acrylic (when new) are: its greater impact resistance, its higher transmitivity (better than glass). The advantages of acrylic are: lower cost, better scratch resistance, stronger when exposed to nonpoint loads, and better UV resistance.

I would use acrylic in this situation, because it is will actually provide more protection against wave action, will last longer, and will be significantly cheaper.

Either material can be worked with hand tools in a fashion similar to working with wood: cut with a saw, sand, drill, file, etc. It is not necessary to have a bandsaw or a drill press, although (as with wood) these tools will make the job go faster and make it somewhat easier to work with precision.

[Ryban]

I'm pretty sold on using acrylic at this point.

Those windows above look absolutely great. The whole "no fastener" method is especially appealing as it means I wouldn't have to drill and seal 60-something holes in the boat. What do you mean when you say you used a combination of 3M VHB tape and 795?

I think I'll do a hybrid route and use fewer fasteners, but still enough that the window is held firmly in place if the adhesive fails. I think Don Casey's book recommends fastener spacing of 12 x thickness of the material. 12 * 3/8 = 4 or 5 inches.

I think I'll have a shop cut and route the edges of the windows, and I'll drill the holes myself. I'll make sure they give me some scrap material to practice drilling on.

[JPA Cate]

ryban, remember to drill the holes oversize for the acrylic, because it heat expands, and it will crack at the screws, if there is inadequate clearance. This is one of the reasons people install it with adhesives only.

If you decide to through-bolt, and it is a cored area, first seal the hole edges with epoxy, and after it has set, then install with whatever bedding material you use.

Ann

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Ryban

What do you mean when you say you used a combination of 3M VHB tape and 795?

Here is an article by Don Casey that explains it well (scroll down to "surface mounting"). I followed this method almost to a "T": https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/rep...xed-portlights


And here is a thread with some more pics of my own window project: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...ckness.182638/

It really was an easy project, no more difficult than working with plywood. The only part I STILL have not figured out is how to caulk the inside of the small forward windows, as there is no room to maneuver a caulking gun around them. It's a pity DC795 is not available in a squeeze tube.

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by dixiedawg

Here is an article by Don Casey that explains it well (scroll down to "surface mounting"). I followed this method almost to a "T": https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/rep...xed-portlights


And here is a thread with some more pics of my own window project: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...ckness.182638/

It really was an easy project, no more difficult than working with plywood. The only part I STILL have not figured out is how to caulk the inside of the small forward windows, as there is no room to maneuver a caulking gun around them. It's a pity DC795 is not available in a squeeze tube.

If I understand correctly, you use tape to both afix and provide window-to-hull spacing, and then squeeze in 795 from the outside? Does the tape go to the outside edge of the acrylic, or is it cut shy to allow room for the 795 to squeze in?

I'll check around the island and see if I can find either product in stock. I have my doubts. I might have to make an order from the states.

Also, did you use 4991 tape? I'm looking at their spec sheets, and in terms of adhesion and strength, it almost seems like the 5952 family might be better:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...-vhb-tapes.pdf

[Gene Neill]

My windows are roughly 1" larger than the openings all the way around. The VHB tape is centered in the middle of that inch, and the 795 is squeezed under the Plexi from both outside and inside. The tape is thus completely sealed in by the 795, inside and out.

Yes, I used 4991. To be honest, I just blindly took Casey's advice in that area. The DC 795 I was familiar with already and believed it to be the best.

Originally Posted by Ryban

If I understand correctly, you use tape to both afix and provide window-to-hull spacing, and then squeeze in 795 from the outside? Does the tape go to the outside edge of the acrylic, or is it cut shy to allow room for the 795 to squeze in?

I'll check around the island and see if I can find either product in stock. I have my doubts. I might have to make an order from the states.

Also, did you use 4991 tape? I'm looking at their spec sheets, and in terms of adhesion and strength, it almost seems like the 5952 family might be better:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...-vhb-tapes.pdf