Switch to wing sail on a small cutter?

[Jim Cate]

Selling the existing rigging would fund most of the conversion costs.

I fear that you are overestimating the value of used rigging... there is not much of a market for such, and piles of it can be found in most scrap yards and rigger's shops.

And I still have no idea what he means by "wing sail".

Jim

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I fear that you are overestimating the value of used rigging... there is not much of a market for such, and piles of it can be found in most scrap yards and rigger's shops.

And I still have no idea what he means by "wing sail".

Jim

True, although I was assuming that he did all the work himself, from building the mast to the sails. And he can probably reuse his old sails for most of the latter.
Which would put his costs at about $2-3000 for the whole job.

[psk125]

For $2-3000 he could buy an inflatable AND an engine, then stow it all the below and not have to change anything. One quickly gets to a point of diminishing returns messing with the rig on a 24’ boat.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by psk125

For $2-3000 he could buy an inflatable AND an engine, then stow it all the below and not have to change anything. One quickly gets to a point of diminishing returns messing with the rig on a 24’ boat.

True, but I like to assume that OP would have considered that option before asking this question. Perhaps he has a custom built dinghy that he is fond of, and is not a fan of pumping, and doesn't have interior stowage to spare.
If he is considering buying a new sail just to make deck space, then I don't think money is his biggest concern.

[JPA Cate]

@Chancesail:

Had you considered a nesting hard dinghy? A number of the guys we met in under 25 ft. sailboats were using them, or just tiny hard dinghies, not capable of much payload. Another possibility is a small roll up inflatable dinghy, and that would allow you to stow it below while under way, and just inflate when you want to row ashore. They do not row as well as even a tiny hard dinghy, but one learns to use them thoughtfully. And it will leave her lines clean, to the eye, after all the work you've put into her.

CF's being slow right now, and i can't get to page 2, so don't know if you picked one of Stu's sails as the one most like what you want. You want to keep the center of effort low, as raising it will make her more tender when you sail her.

Ann

[carlosproa]

Build a Nestor 8 dinghy and be done with it. Will nest in 4 ft area and is easy to build

[Chancesail]

Thanks guys! I had been sending individual thank-yous to each of those who posted responses and suggestions. Still learning the nuances to this site; apologies. As for an inflatable, correct, not enough room. The floorboards that have access reveal the top of the keel about an inch below the floor boards. The only bilge is back beneath the engine. Main reason why smaller vessels require bigger pumps. I had mentioned that my reason for wanting to raise the boom was to be able to fit a nesting dinghy beneath same on the coach roof. There is a small anchor well in the bow but not enough room to store a dinghy and drop or retrieve the ground tackle. I was not familiar with the terminology for the more modern sail types. One gentleman sailor was kind enough to post a line drawing of my vessel with the different types of mains, in color no,less! I can even get a photo to upload on this site for my profile. Yes, I did learn how to reduce the size which I did to 350 x 350 but still no luck. With this new found knowledge I can now state that I was considering a square top sail. Thought it would give me more sail area and look kewl on a classic design. It would be raising the center of effort and as another gentleman put it, I might as well make her a motor yacht if I do that??? Marine architect I’m not, hence the posting of the question. I am thrilled and thankful at how many have taken the time to respond and post not only some very good information but also to poke fun, (that’s what I’m going with...) at my ignorance of sailing nomenclature. The reasons for a hard dinghy is that 1. It will be my lifeboat that I can sail to a port should I suffer irreparable damage from an irate whale Or some such and 2. they row much better. I prefer to be proactive in getting my self to safety should the need arise, rather than bobbing around in something that may or may not open, cannot be steered and is easily punctured by sharp teeth. Thank you all again! Are there any marine architects out there???

[JPA Cate]

Bob Perry's on Sailing Anarchy, or was, some while ago. I don't visit there.

Ann

[Chancesail]

Also, my main sheet straddles the hatch cover, it is not on the stern as with the Lyle Hess design. So space is limited there as well. I have enough for the nesting dinghy horizontally just not vertically...

[Captn_Black]

I wouldn't call myself a marine architect, but I have experience with sail design and construction . I'll post pics here of those folding dinghy plans when I find them, they're not copyrighted.
The seat is what holds it open. the design length is limited by the size of the marine ply you can get hold of, and you'll need some dinghy grade reinforced pvc canvas for some of the flexible edges - I've never built the design, but have met two others that did. The PVC canvas will start to develop leaks on the folds over time, but it can be fixed or replaced.

[Captn_Black]

If you're thinking of doing a foot reefing gaff main yourself, read Practical Junk Rig, as a junk sail already has the ability to be reefed from the foot. It should be pretty clear once you've read it how that can be applied to a gaff sail.

Personally I would be ok with having the boom secured with a running tackline etc in that case, but you could easily design a running track or brace for the boom instead, although that would require extra deck work to adjust.
It may be possible to reef up the clew and boom on your existing mainsail to put it into a kind of yankee shape, but your sail efficiency would suffer, as there is no way to design it to work in that position and the normal position properly at the same time. If you wanted it permanently in that position it would have to be recut and redesigned, at least at the foot, although that would not be 100% correct as the lay of the cloth would be off from the ideal, but the effect of that would be small if designed properly.

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by Chancesail

Also, my main sheet straddles the hatch cover, it is not on the stern as with the Lyle Hess design. So space is limited there as well. I have enough for the nesting dinghy horizontally just not vertically...

Not to be a pest, you may also want to consider a foldeable dinghy. They fold flat, some of them can be DIY built at any length suitable to you. Is a matter of securing it flat to the stanchions.

Here is an example

https://youtu.be/ZX6OrS9gkpE

[Captn_Black]

Here's those plans, sorry about the quality, hopefully it is good enough to see how it's done.



I can try get better photos if you need, but this is my old back-up phone, and that's about as good as it gets

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Chancesail

Thanks guys! I had been sending individual thank-yous to each of those who posted responses and suggestions. Still learning the nuances to this site; apologies. As for an inflatable, correct, not enough room. I don't think so, a roll up dinghy could lie on the cabin sole forward. A couple of pad eyes to lash it down.

The floorboards that have access reveal the top of the keel about an inch below the floor boards. The only bilge is back beneath the engine. Main reason why smaller vessels require bigger pumps. I had mentioned that my reason for wanting to raise the boom was to be able to fit a nesting dinghy beneath same on the coach roof. Some nesting dingies lie forward of the mast, and over lap the mast only a little, at their sterns.

There is a small anchor well in the bow but not enough room to store a dinghy and drop or retrieve the ground tackle. I was not familiar with the terminology for the more modern sail types. One gentleman sailor was kind enough to post a line drawing of my vessel with the different types of mains, in color no,less! Yes, if memory serves, that was Stu M. I can even get a photo to upload on this site for my profile. Yes, I did learn how to reduce the size which I did to 350 x 350 but still no luck. With this new found knowledge I can now state that I was considering a square top sail. Thought it would give me more sail area and look kewl on a classic design. It would be raising the center of effort and as another gentleman put it, I might as well make her a motor yacht if I do that??? I believe he meant that the loss of sail area would mean that you motor sail in order to keep your SOG (speed over the ground) up. They may also have had in mind that, depending on her hull shape, a square top mainsail might heel her over so much that she'd be on her ear all the time and you might not like that, either. Adding the sail area aloft like that, well your whole mast is the lever arm.

Marine architect I’m not, hence the posting of the question. I am thrilled and thankful at how many have taken the time to respond and post not only some very good information but also to poke fun, (that’s what I’m going with...) at my ignorance of sailing nomenclature. The reasons for a hard dinghy is that 1. It will be my lifeboat that I can sail to a port should I suffer irreparable damage from an irate whale Or some such and 2. they row much better. I prefer to be proactive in getting my self to safety should the need arise, rather than bobbing around in something that may or may not open, cannot be steered and is easily punctured by sharp teeth. Thank you all again! Are there any marine architects out there???

There is almost surely someone out there who knows more than me about this who will be able to make some worthwhile input.

Ann

[carlosproa]

One last hard dinghy for you to consider

http://www.woodenwidget.com/fitdeck.htm