Taiwan Made Boats

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

I have not cut my keel open to check the ballast type - but the info I have been able to get is that the Pacific Seacraft boats built in Dana Point (Santana Ana, in So Cal), all came with one piece lead keels. I assume the newer ones built in North Carolina do also.

I'd be more than curious to know where that piece of data comes from

You are absolutely correct..... brain short circuit. I meant to say Island Packet as A64 pointed out.

[gabilo]

China was in the early 80's an agricultural country with virtually no exports.... just having emerged from the cultural revolution.
Therefore it is virtually impossible that any Chinese steel was used in Taiwan.
These boats are now close to 40 years old... don't think it is surprising that parts need to be replaced...

[zeehag]

as the last lead smelting plant in usa was closed in 1991 or 1992 after blood lead level testing proved to epa the lack of safety of smelting lead, i cannot see any usa built boats after 1991or 92 having lead poured keels. enjoy your bliss.
is like saying all formosas have spruce masts. do you realize how much shipping spruce to taiwan actually cost? especially as thai cedar was and is still a better wood to use.
folks can argue to their deaths the inadequacies of taiwanese boats, but those arguments are made of misinformation and disinformation by people not understanding reality.
my formosa is 40 yrs of age. i am amazed at and by the repairs i do NOT need to make, yet will make anyway. these are very impressive sturdy trade winds cruisers.
i plan on keeping and cruising mine until my last breath at which point a match will create my viking funeral.
taiwanese built boats will long outlast the rest.
i hope your questions have been answered.
enjoy your new taiwanese built boat. it has more character and integrity than any production boat i have encountered.

[Jim Cate]

as the last lead smelting plant in usa was closed in 1991 or 1992 after blood lead level testing proved to epa the lack of safety of smelting lead, i cannot see any usa built boats after 1991or 92 having lead poured keels. enjoy your bliss.

Zee, I believe that most Catalina yachts have lead keels, even to this day. They seem to be built in the USA. From what Boatpoker and others have said, Pacific Seacraft boats also have lead keels, and are built in the USA. I suspect there are many others as well.

So, enjoy your own bliss.

Jim

[zeehag]

ì

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Zee, I believe that most Catalina yachts have lead keels, even to this day. They seem to be built in the USA. From what Boatpoker and others have said, Pacific Seacraft boats also have lead keels, and are built in the USA. I suspect there are many others as well.

So, enjoy your own bliss.

Jim

i wonder where they are getting the lead as the smelter has closed. most interesting.
i know of the closures as i was drawing the bloods for the lead levels, all of which failed.
there were 2 smelting plants, one in tecate, mx, and one in santa fe springs, cali, both shut tighter that a newly skinned drum.

[boatpoker]

Lead keels .... Catalina, Hunter by the thousands. Very, very few of these brands models have cast iron keels.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Lead keels .... Catalina, Hunter by the thousands. Very, very few of these brands models have cast iron keels.

so, as i have REPEATEDLY asked, WHERE is the lead allegedly being smelted???
NOT in usa, definitely, as the last smelters for lead were closed in 1991-2. that is fact.
tell me WHERE is the alleged lead smelting being done???

[model 10]

Originally Posted by zeehag

so,
tell me WHERE is the alleged lead smelting being done???

Well till not to long ago, there was a guy at Green Cove Springs, FL who was smelting lead from salvaged boats. I hear he is is about dead. It only took a few years of this activity to do him in. Just think, for lead, not even gold.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by zeehag

so, as i have REPEATEDLY asked, WHERE is the lead allegedly being smelted???
NOT in usa, definitely, as the last smelters for lead were closed in 1991-2. that is fact.
tell me WHERE is the alleged lead smelting being done???

I have no idea where Catalina get their lead keels but they are still building Catalina's with lead keels. Hunter gets their lead keels from Mars Metal in Burlington Ontario, I've done some consulting there.

You could always call and ask Catalina if your knickers are in such a knot

[zeehag]

my knickers are not in a knot. there is no legit lead smelting in usa. the last smelters were shut down with my reports to epa, which was sent in 1990. the plants themselves went down 1991 or 1992.
it was a simple question which you recused to aknowledge yet stuck your disinformation into the mix. as usual. as catalinas are not taiwan builds nor are island packet nor pacific seacraft your thread drift is your responsibility and you should have seen fit to answer so thread could return to point.funny how that lead does not come from taiwan, either.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Originally Posted by zeehag

my knickers are not in a knot. there is no legit lead smelting in usa. the last smelters were shut down with my reports to epa, which was sent in 1990. the plants themselves went down 1991 or 1992.
it was a simple question which you recused to aknowledge yet stuck your disinformation into the mix. as usual. as catalinas are not taiwan builds nor are island packet nor pacific seacraft your thread drift is your responsibility and you should have seen fit to answer so thread could return to point.funny how that lead does not come from taiwan, either.

It could be a place like Mars Metal. While the boat's are built in the USA, I don't believe that means all the components are sourced within the country. Yes outsourcing a keel would add to the complexity of fitting it, but it is possible

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by zeehag

my knickers are not in a knot. there is no legit lead smelting in usa. the last smelters were shut down with my reports to epa, which was sent in 1990. the plants themselves went down 1991 or 1992.
it was a simple question which you recused to aknowledge yet stuck your disinformation into the mix. as usual. as catalinas are not taiwan builds nor are island packet nor pacific seacraft your thread drift is your responsibility and you should have seen fit to answer so thread could return to point.funny how that lead does not come from taiwan, either.

Show me where I said anything about lead coming from Taiwan.
Show me where I said Catalina's, Island Packets, Hunters or Pacific Seacrafts were built in Taiwan.

What Dis-information are you talking about ?

[Jd1]

Good grief guys (and gals) .... who cares where the lead is smelted. If I want lead I just go to a supplier and buy a few ingots. If I was a boat builder I may go directly to a producer but the world is much larger than just North America. There is no shortage of lead, it is readily available.
For those who wonder about lead keels - they are more efficient on a boat as your keel can be smaller for the same weight and you have less wetted surface to drag through the ocean. It also somewhat absorbs the shock of impact if you like cruising in rocky areas.
As far as I am concerned, I will only consider a boat with a lead keel unless depleted uranium comes down in price a bit. A boat is full of compromises, paying a bit extra for a lead keel and not compromising on the keel is a no brainer to me.

[Jim Cate]

JD, don't wish for your D-38 (depleted U) too hard... you might get some, and it would be a PITA to use in a keel (despite it occasionally having been done). Quite reactive, oxidizes pretty readily, would be very hard to paint successfully. No where near as malleable as lead so no shock absorbtion. Much higher melting poiint than lead, and requires casting in an inert atmosphere, difficccult to machine, too. Awkward stuff, that! Oddly, not much more toxic than lead, so that wouldn't be such a worry. Then, of course, you would have to constantly be fielding jokes about glowing in the dark, which of course illustrate lack of knowledge by the jokester, but...

And finally, it isn't much different than Tungsten in density, and you can buy that over the counter (with a big check book).

Jim

PS Zee, it was you who started the argument by saying that there were no lead keeled boats being built in the USA. Smelting, which I believe is the act of reducing the raw ore to metallic lead, may be shut down in the USA, but there is surely a lot of lead being used in manufacturing in the USA. Lead acid batteries come to mind at once, radiation shielding construction, counter weights in various applications (beyond keels), ammunition, fishing weights, dive weights... on and on. It is useful stuff, but difficult to bring into the world in a safe manner. I dunno where it all is happening these days, but China comes to mind... their ideas about enviro protection are different than ours, it seems.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

JD, don't wish for your D-38 (depleted U) too hard... you might get some, and it would be a PITA to use in a keel (despite it occasionally having been done). Quite reactive, oxidizes pretty readily, would be very hard to paint successfully. No where near as malleable as lead so no shock absorbtion. Much higher melting poiint than lead, and requires casting in an inert atmosphere, difficccult to machine, too. Awkward stuff, that! Oddly, not much more toxic than lead, so that wouldn't be such a worry. Then, of course, you would have to constantly be fielding jokes about glowing in the dark, which of course illustrate lack of knowledge by the jokester, but...

And finally, it isn't much different than Tungsten in density, and you can buy that over the counter (with a big check book).

Jim

PS Zee, it was you who started the argument by saying that there were no lead keeled boats being built in the USA. Smelting, which I believe is the act of reducing the raw ore to metallic lead, may be shut down in the USA, but there is surely a lot of lead being used in manufacturing in the USA. Lead acid batteries come to mind at once, radiation shielding construction, counter weights in various applications (beyond keels), ammunition, fishing weights, dive weights... on and on. It is useful stuff, but difficult to bring into the world in a safe manner. I dunno where it all is happening these days, but China comes to mind... their ideas about enviro protection are different than ours, it seems.

And don't forget bullets. Plenty of bullets made right here in the USA.