Teak Toe Rail Repair

[nelly]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think the fitting is very good but you used epoxy for the adhesive. This will always show that dark line. It would become invisible when using an adhesive like Titebond III but you can see the difference in wood so why bother, I think the epoxy glue line looks great and is a feature of the repair

Just an FYI, Titebond III says it is waterproof, but it is not. I kind of cringe when watching people use it in marine situations now.

Here is the test: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=321279609

Look at exterior conditions.

I am not even OK with using Titebond in my interior woodworking anymore (on the boat), if it's important. I use epoxy. But you're right. It will show more than wood glues.

I haven't used all the glues in this test. You can see that Dap Weldwood Plastic Resin performs amazingly well in many conditions, but I am not familiar with the product at all.

[nelly]

Originally Posted by Fatbob

Thanks. Teak is rather easy to work.

I think it looks awesome, as another amateur woodworker.

Teak is a lot of fun to work with. But expensive. I can't find it for less than $40/bf. Just recently dropped $500 on some teak - future boat projects will be walnut and cherry...!

[Wheelguns]

I have mixed teak sanding dust with epoxy to give a more natural color to the joint.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by Jamme

Great job! As to the black lines showing, think of them as your Kintsugi artwork [emoji3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi

Oh, totally agree. Sometimes I think its kind of neat to see the repair work if its an interesting area of restoration. Nice work OP. I like the darker line showing the repair.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by odonnellryan

Just an FYI, Titebond III says it is waterproof, but it is not. I kind of cringe when watching people use it in marine situations now.

Here is the test: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=321279609

Look at exterior conditions.

I am not even OK with using Titebond in my interior woodworking anymore (on the boat), if it's important. I use epoxy. But you're right. It will show more than wood glues.

I haven't used all the glues in this test. You can see that Dap Weldwood Plastic Resin performs amazingly well in many conditions, but I am not familiar with the product at all.

Titebond 3 is proven waterproof because it passes the relevant tests (ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance). The test you refer to is different and not relevant for any serious application of the glue.

Same for other of his test results. He never uses any filler with the epoxies, he states the 2P10 thin is not as good a glue as the thick and gel, 5200 is unimpressive etc. and all that is because his tests are the wrong application.

Example: for gap filling you must use a filler like colloidal silica with epoxy. Thin CA glue isn’t for wood gluing, not is 5200.

The outdoor test involved raw, unfinished wood put outdoors in full exposure, with 7 freeze/thaw cycles. This test will split many wood species even without a glue joint. Nothing withstands the expansion of freezing water, it splits even the biggest rocks.

To survive that test, water must be kept out to prevent this. Epoxy is very good because it changes it to a plastic part with natural fiber reinforcement.
If he had varnished or painted the parts before exposing them to the freeze/thaw cycles then the water had been kept out of the wood fibers.

Titebond 3 showed itself to be a superior glue in all his other tests. I use 2P10 in thick consistency often, but do not believe it holds up over time, so I use it for temporary things like clamping etc.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Wheelguns

I have mixed teak sanding dust with epoxy to give a more natural color to the joint.

I tried that with Jatoba and in the pot it looks just like the wood, but afterwards it appears as a black line again…

[Fatbob]

After 12 coats of Epifanes Clear, not a perfect match but not too bad.

[Fatbob]

Originally Posted by Wheelguns

I have mixed teak sanding dust with epoxy to give a more natural color to the joint.

Good idea. I kept the teak sanding dust from all the "glorious sanding" involved in the project. I suspect it will come in handy for a future repair.

[nelly]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Titebond 3 is proven waterproof because it passes the relevant tests (ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance). The test you refer to is different and not relevant for any serious application of the glue.

Same for other of his test results. He never uses any filler with the epoxies, he states the 2P10 thin is not as good a glue as the thick and gel, 5200 is unimpressive etc. and all that is because his tests are the wrong application.

Example: for gap filling you must use a filler like colloidal silica with epoxy. Thin CA glue isn’t for wood gluing, not is 5200.

The outdoor test involved raw, unfinished wood put outdoors in full exposure, with 7 freeze/thaw cycles. This test will split many wood species even without a glue joint. Nothing withstands the expansion of freezing water, it splits even the biggest rocks.

To survive that test, water must be kept out to prevent this. Epoxy is very good because it changes it to a plastic part with natural fiber reinforcement.
If he had varnished or painted the parts before exposing them to the freeze/thaw cycles then the water had been kept out of the wood fibers.

Titebond 3 showed itself to be a superior glue in all his other tests. I use 2P10 in thick consistency often, but do not believe it holds up over time, so I use it for temporary things like clamping etc.

Well, maybe! But I think it's a good test, and I definitely trust this guy to not do anything stupid or dishonest. He's a stand up guy.

> If he had varnished or painted the parts before exposing them to the freeze/thaw cycles then the water had been kept out of the wood fibers.

Well, yes. That's the point. But I think we can both agree - if it's outside on a boat, it's going to get wet, at some point. Even if it has varnish, it'll eventually get ****ed up. Or maybe it's just me haha.

I used to use titebond for everything too. I won't use it outside anymore.

[Jamme]

Originally Posted by Fatbob

After 12 coats of Epifanes Clear, not a perfect match but not too bad.



Attachment 275539

Excellent!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by odonnellryan

Well, maybe! But I think it's a good test, and I definitely trust this guy to not do anything stupid or dishonest. He's a stand up guy.

> If he had varnished or painted the parts before exposing them to the freeze/thaw cycles then the water had been kept out of the wood fibers.

Well, yes. That's the point. But I think we can both agree - if it's outside on a boat, it's going to get wet, at some point. Even if it has varnish, it'll eventually get ****ed up. Or maybe it's just me haha.

I used to use titebond for everything too. I won't use it outside anymore.

When you leave the wood aboard unfinished and expose it to frost/thaw cycles then yes, you are better off with epoxy, but note that this won’t survive the first summer because of UV deterioration, for which it requires protection by putting a finish on the wood.

All glues that I know require a finish when used outdoors.

The reason that Titebond 3 is waterproof is because it has proven to be, not because I write it. The tests I mentioned are solid and accepted worldwide by the whole industry.

Also, I am not suggesting that this guy is dishonest; you bring up that word, not me, please don’t try to out it in my mouth. What I said is that he uses some of the glues for the wrong application. He should add colloidal silica to the West System epoxy for glue test, especially when comparing it to other epoxies that come with a filler added, like JB Weld.
He should not use a thin CA glue for gluing wood, let alone in a gap filling test, that is just silly.
And he should have put a finish on the wood for an outdoors test.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Fatbob

After 12 coats of Epifanes Clear, not a perfect match but not too bad.

Attachment 275539

It is a perfect match, just needs a little time under the sun to prove it

I actually like some variation and often select boards to contrast each other. I think it attracts some attention to the beauty of the natural variation in wood.

[rls8r]

You did a great job! Teak may be easy to work with - but continuing the lines as well as you did is not. Two things that I've seen mentioned in previous comments:

1. I'd use the 403 filler since I believe it bonds wood-to-wood better - but realistically, there's probably very little difference in the bonding strength. In the 'olden days' (when I was younger) we'd use resorcinol glue, but that's almost impossible to find nowadays (and it, too, leaves a slight line).

2. I tried blending teak sanding dust into my epoxy when I repaired my rub rail. It didn't hide the line nearly as well as I had hoped - so I wouldn't lose much sleep wondering if you could have done something to better eliminate the line.

[Knothardly]

Looks great for first time. I have a similar repair pending. Gives me hope and couurage!!!!!

[sailcrazy]

In my experience of some 40 yrs building with wood (from furniture to boats to ??), as an amature DIYer, I say you did really well! Even if you go thru board after board to find the (near) perfect grain pattern and color match, and then make perfect cuts at the joint....the joint line is still visible. I wish my teak cap rail looked so good! Having used Titebond glues, and epoxies, and other glues in an outside exposure....I'd use epoxy every time...especially on the water.