The Ocean is broken...

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by scoobert

Sigh. The pacific garbage patch is mostly below the surface. And the trash breaks down over time. Even plastic. Dont think so, leave a pvc dingy in the equatorial sun, watch what happens

Ok, I was going to stay out if this but your post there is totally incorrect.

The PVC ends up in the food chain, that's the problem. You know all those nice little plankton eaters? They're scooping up tons of little bitty PVC bits. Those stay in the food stream and makes its way into us.

know anyone with cancer????

I'm just about to go attend a fundraiser for a friend dying of cancer. She eats lots of local fish also.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Ok, I was going to stay out if this but your post there is totally incorrect.

The PVC ends up in the food chain, that's the problem. You know all those nice little plankton eaters? They're scooping up tons of little bitty PVC bits. Those stay in the food stream and makes its way into us.

know anyone with cancer????

I'm just about to go attend a fundraiser for a friend dying of cancer. She eats lots of local fish also.

My grandmother died of cancer. She ate lots of salads.
Salads gave her cancer.

Its called begging the question, and PURE SPECULATION.

[salticrak]

No one can argue with the pics of seabirds dead with a gutful of plastic.A couple of weeks ago I took my kayaks up the beach for a fish. There were thousands of dead and dying mutton birds on the beach. Sad to see, turns out the whole East coast of Oz had mass die offs recently. This may be due to natural circumstances but was not pretty. Also the amount of jelly fish in the water was more than i had witnessed on all my time on the water.

[unbusted67]

There are too many people on the planet, wasting too much energy, consuming too many resources.

If you don't see it you are blind. I've been traveling for almost two years now. Every where you go: People. People driving cars, people eating food, people throwing out their easily recycled plastic, people trashing and harassing animals.

People who refute overpopulation and pollution have a myopic world view or are generally not well traveled. They think somewhere out there there are vast stretches of untouched wilderness where animals have a place to be animals without harassment or influence from humans. Its just not true.

You want proof? Look at a population map. It is impossible for there to be that many humans and for them not to have an impact on the ocean, climate, and animal species.

Stop having babies. It is a selfish act.

[salticrak]

The human animal is the only mammal that breeds more when conditions are at their worst. I.e poverty,lack of resources etc. Certain mammals can delay their gestation until conditions improve, Now to argue that those in the third world should have less kids because a few will die in childhood are in for a lot of p.c. recriminations. One would also be accused of racism in some quarters. It seems the only way to really bring down population growth presently is by that population becoming wealthier. This is a blunt instrument and takes a long time. I mean it is only a few generations ago when European women where pregnant for most of their child bearing years.

[tropicalescape]

There is enough science out there that says "this stuff is not good for you" says so down at the dock on the Yadkin river about 10 miles from where I live, the sign also reads that pregnant woman should not eat any fish from the river, as it is poison..If its in the Yadkin its in the PeeDee and if its in the Peedee its in the Cape Fear and the Atlantic...I could see someone getting cancer eating a high concentration of seafood from water we know is poison.Example:A fellow down by the river had some obvious severe developmental problems,he lived down by a piece of land I bought once on the river front,when I inquired about the very red colored water coming from the water well and its "safe drinking qualitys" ,the fellow with all the "developmental problems" suddenly said " I have lived here on this river pert'near all my life(he had in fact been born in a cabin on the rivers edge, rather than "pert'near" all his life he, had been there "all" his life!) "and I hava ben dranking this here water "pert'near" all my life,and they aint nutten awrong with me!"Hell ,I didnt know what to say! I could have said well your all f'd up and if this is what that water does to you I dont want any,but I didnt..I really do think that you could get sick eating alot of that stuff..

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

There are too many people on the planet, wasting too much energy, consuming too many resources.

If you don't see it you are blind. I've been traveling for almost two years now. Every where you go: People. People driving cars, people eating food, people throwing out their easily recycled plastic, people trashing and harassing animals.

People who refute overpopulation and pollution have a myopic world view or are generally not well traveled. They think somewhere out there there are vast stretches of untouched wilderness where animals have a place to be animals without harassment or influence from humans. Its just not true.

You want proof? Look at a population map. It is impossible for there to be that many humans and for them not to have an impact on the ocean, climate, and animal species.

Stop having babies. It is a selfish act.

Amen brother!Whos going to be first? ....not me! but I agree with it in context..

[dana-tenacity]

My Turn. I did my first offshore passage in a small sailboat in 1975. I've been at it more or less constantly ever since (with a couple of breaks to make money). I intend to keep at it till my dying breath.
Based on my own observations over that period I agree with everything this guy says.
He wants to do something, I am afraid that as a species we don't have the collective intelligence to deal with it.
Eventually (maybe sooner rather than later) the human population on this planet must fall. The ocean will still be there, but it will not look like the one I have known. Very sad.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

There is enough science out there that says "this stuff is not good for you" ....stuff..

They do not know what causes 99% of developmental disabilities.
They find a connection so they advise not doing it. Its conjecture, and speculation. They know in large volumes its not good for you, otherwise, they don't know.

[salticrak]

Unlike us in the west that may have retirement policies, in the third world kids are your retirement. We need to tackle this issue.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by salticrak

The human animal is the only mammal that breeds more when conditions are at their worst. I.e poverty,lack of resources etc. Certain mammals can delay their gestation until conditions improve, Now to argue that those in the third world should have less kids because a few will die in childhood are in for a lot of p.c. recriminations. One would also be accused of racism in some quarters. It seems the only way to really bring down population growth presently is by that population becoming wealthier. This is a blunt instrument and takes a long time. I mean it is only a few generations ago when European women where pregnant for most of their child bearing years.

I don't really agree with this because yes it is racist. And also you are arguing for more production. In order for LDC's to become richer they need to produce more, in order to produce more you have to consume more. So basically you are just going to create more waste by bringing these countries into the first world.

The other reason this argument isn't valid is that LDCs do have bigger families but the infant mortality rate is way higher, Dickensian high. Here in the first world we get to keep all of our babies. So, though our countries populations are shrinking we are still adding to the global population explosion.

Education (not wealth) is the answer for these countries.

One of the most horrifying things I've seen in my life was in Cambodia in a Hill Tribe village. Babies just learning to walk carrying new born babies on their backs, heads lolling unsupported bugs eating their eyes. When we spoke with the women there they were oblivious about contraception, or even the rhythm method. These people don't want more babies. Pregnancy is dangerous. But when the times are tough you want love and affection and that's how babies get made man. Education is the answer. That or a sterility inducing virus that affects us all equally.

We are up sh%t creak right now and the level is rising.

[Bestathook]

"My grandmother died of cancer. She ate lots of salads.
Salads gave her cancer."

If it was GM (genetically modified) lettuce, sprayed with roundup, plus the pesticides for the new roundup resistant organisms, it might have killed her.

But seriously, how could humans affect the environment?

We are only burning 88,000,000 barrels of oil per day.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

I don't really agree with this because yes it is racist. And also you are arguing for more production. In order for LDC's to become richer they need to produce more, in order to produce more you have to consume more. So basically you are just going to create more waste by bringing these countries into the first world.

The other reason this argument isn't valid is that LDCs do have bigger families but the infant mortality rate is way higher, Dickensian high. Here in the first world we get to keep all of our babies. So, though our countries populations are shrinking we are still adding to the global population explosion.

Education (not wealth) is the answer for these countries.

One of the most horrifying things I've seen in my life was in Cambodia in a Hill Tribe village. Babies just learning to walk carrying new born babies on their backs, heads lolling unsupported bugs eating their eyes. When we spoke with the women there they were oblivious about contraception, or even the rhythm method. These people don't want more babies. Pregnancy is dangerous. But when the times are tough you want love and affection and that's how babies get made man. Education is the answer. That or a sterility inducing virus that affects us all equally.

We are up sh%t creak right now and the level is rising.

Brains,give me brains(pan to zombies rowing a boat toward unsuspecting cruisers boat..)

[salticrak]

I am not arguing for more production, far from it. Education/birth control sure. Look at the problems facing those who have been fighting polio in third world countries like pakistan and Nigeria. The health workers get accused of all sorts of conspiracies and some have ended up dead. I remember reading somewhere that some Africans thought aids was an American plot to kill off black people.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by Bestathook

"My grandmother died of cancer. She ate lots of salads.
Salads gave her cancer."

If it was GM (genetically modified) lettuce, sprayed with roundup, plus the pesticides for the new roundup resistant organisms, it might have killed her.

But seriously, how could humans affect the environment?

We are only burning 88,000,000 barrels of oil per day.

Haha no way, it is all part of the Earth's natural cycle.