Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

[Fore and Aft]

Blinking heck Slug you are being a bit negative about drying out. We have a flat bottomed yacht with a swing keel and deliberately beach her all the time. Never been pounded yet, we usually choose our spot in a sheltered area. It’s great for the kids as they can play right next to the yacht.
I knew a steel twin keel 50 foot yacht in Kingston Canada that had been sailed singlehanded to Cape Town and back. She was a nice yacht and the keels were well designed. When people say twin keel I think they imagine two ugly appendages hanging of a hull.
Cheers

[Fore and Aft]

I knew a steel twin Keeler in Kingston Canada that had been sailed single handed to Cape Town and back. It was a nice yacht with well designed keels.
We have a flat bottomed swing keel 10 meter yacht we beach all the time. Never been pounded yet and the kids love playing on the beach next to her.
When people think twin keel I think they imagine two ugly appendages hanging of the bottom of a hull.
Cheers

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I think you have a point and why is it for sale? it's only 2 years old. Not sure about twin props on a yacht either.

I was sort of assuming that it was Spec Built, or maybe a custom order and the buyer had a financial disaster and couldn't actually finish payments or decided to sell without ever really having used it.

Two engines/props is unusual, but I don't necessarily see as a bad thing, especially on a boat set up like that. It gives you redundancy and a little more maneuverability maybe.

Regardless, if they were engines that you could reasonably expect to find parts for and service around the world, that would be a pretty great setup for exploring remote/extreme locations.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Not sure about twin props on a yacht either.

Wonder more that the props don't fold or feather - wasn't planning on sailing much? If going twin keel, twin engine, then why not twin rudder?

[Muaddib1116]

Good points. It wouldn't be hard to upgrade the props, but you're right, why not have feathering props from the get-go. And twin rudders would make a lot of sense in this arrangement.

[Pete7]

Wonder if it was headed north into the ice, but otherwise a huge amount of drag. A single fixed and locked prop is equal to something like 30% of the total hull drag.

Pete

[Muaddib1116]

Without having much knowledge of high altitude sailing, it certainly seems like the type of boat I'd want to take on the northwest passage or something similar. Fixed props would definitely be appropriate for ice areas.

It's definitely not a fast boat, but I wonder if it's actually that much slower than a large displacement cruising boat of a similar size.

[Pete7]

The problem is it looks a one off or custom build. If you changed your mind who would you sell it to without having to give it away.

Pete

[Fore and Aft]

Pete 7 I hear that yarn all the time and you would be surprised how many people will buy a custom yacht if it’s well built and the price is right. Not everyone wants same same when it comes to boats.
Cheers

[sailingchiro]

I like having twin keels and twin engines.
That yellow boat seems like a nice boat and since it has twin keels and motors. I love the idea. And aluminum. I like it.

[Manateeman]

Dear original poster. To answer your question might I suggest the following.
1. Simply ignore those who have never owned, and probably never will never own, a large twin keel expedition yacht. Silly posters who are experts in everything.
2. A simple search of the history of twin keel designs will answer a number of your questions especially your concerns about vessel behavior in large swells or waves.
3. They are more difficult to design correctly.
4. They cost substantially more to build.
5. In balance, I found the design advantages justified the increased costs.
A smiling manatee who built and owns a twin keel 60’ custom aluminum yacht.

[Idlegreg]

I don't have personal experience of sailing a twin or bilge keel yacht but there are thousands of them sitting happily on moorings in UK harbours - drying out sucessfully on the tide twice a day, so Slug's negativity is just that and can safely be ignored. I am often Jealous.



I have always been fascinated by Lord Riverdales Bluebird of Thorne a decent size boat designed for Ocean sailing by a man who was researching the type and I think a goal other than drying out was reduced rolling which could be a big benefit on a downwind ocean passage. This boat was I think described in Eric HIscocks Voyaging under sail which was the book that inspired my sailing over 40 years ago. I see the boat is still mentioned by modern desingers....


Roll Attenuation and Bilge Keels

[stubones99]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I was looking at a listing for a really nicely finished large reinke in Poland, but I was scared off by the Deutz engines. It seems to me that it's really limiting to an otherwise great go anywhere adventure boat to put what must be custom marinized and custom water cooled converted engines in it, that as far as Google tells me, have zero presence in the sailboat world.

I am surprised that a Deutz engine would scare you off, since they are VERY reliable and in tons of applications worldwide, even if they are not as popular in sailboats as volvo or yanmar. In my opinion, I would prefer Deutz engines over just about every other brand.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by stubones99

I am surprised that a Deutz engine would scare you off, since they are VERY reliable and in tons of applications worldwide, even if they are not as popular in sailboats as volvo or yanmar. In my opinion, I would prefer Deutz engines over just about every other brand.

It's more that I've never heard of them, and a google search came back with pretty much nothing as far as using them in boats. I'm also assuming that it required taking an air cooled engine and creating a custom water cooling system. I'm sure for somebody who knows a good amount about diesel engines, it seems like a great choice, but to me it seems like a strange choice if this is a boat that was built on spec, since it has to be less appealing to the average boat owner. Of course it's very possible that the boat was custom ordered and the owner's finances changed drastically, forcing the sale so soon after launching.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

It's more that I've never heard of them, and a google search came back with pretty much nothing as far as using them in boats. I'm also assuming that it required taking an air cooled engine and creating a custom water cooling system. I'm sure for somebody who knows a good amount about diesel engines, it seems like a great choice, but to me it seems like a strange choice if this is a boat that was built on spec, since it has to be less appealing to the average boat owner. Of course it's very possible that the boat was custom ordered and the owner's finances changed drastically, forcing the sale so soon after launching.

DEUTZ is one of the world’s leading manufacturers of innovative drive systems. Its core competences are the development, production, distribution and servicing of diesel, gas and electric drivetrains for professional applications. The engine specialist offers a broad product spectrum with capacities ranging up to 620 kW that is used in construction equipment, agricultural machinery, material handling equipment, stationary equipment, commercial vehicles, rail vehicles and other applications.

Originally founded as N.A. Otto & Cie. in Cologne, Germany, in 1864, DEUTZ AG is now the world's oldest engine company and one of the world's leading independent engine manufacturers. DEUTZ offers its customers a comprehensive and short-termed support by 13 distribution companies, 7 sales offices and over 800 sales and service partners in more than 130 countries around the world.


The company was founded by Nicolaus Otto on 31 March 1864, as N. A. Otto & Cie. Otto was the inventor of the four-stroke internal combustion engine. In the early years, he and his partner, Eugen Langen, were only interested in production of stationary engines, not automobiles. The technical director, Gottlieb Daimler, was eager to produce automobiles. In the middle of the 1870s, it was suggested that he transfer to the company's St. Petersburg factory to reduce his influence. He resigned, taking Wilhelm Maybach with him. Deutz also produced agricultural machines such as combine harvesters and tractors, as well as commercial vehicles such as trucks and buses.

Famous people who have worked for Deutz include Eugen Langen, Nikolaus Otto, Gottlieb Daimler (from 1872 until 1880), Wilhelm Maybach (from 1872 until 1880), Prosper L'Orange (from 1904 until October 1908), Ettore Bugatti (in 1907), and Robert Bosch.


Deutz marine diesel engines.

https://www.deutz.com/en/products/engines/