Tipping

[sv_pelagia]

Certainly tipping IS different in different countries. One should specify.

Here in British Columbia:

Never heard of tipping for fueling up. Won't say it's never done, but noone I know does it.

Provincial minimum wage just went up to $15.65/hr. Living wage in Vancouver (Nov 2021) is $20.52/hr. https://www.livingwageforfamilies.ca/living_wage2021

(And we have universal, no fee, healthcare....)

I tip where normally expected (certainly not at fuel stations); given Covid-19 and living wage issues, restaurants are 18-20%

But really, rather than expecting tips, restaurants etc should pay a living wage (yes, and raise prices to cover costs).

[MicHughV]

Tipping is an American thing....could not say why this is so....but it is...right...wrong...good...bad..who is to say....my opinion is that Americans tend to be very generous in general, give to any number of causes, etc, etc, and tipping is just part of it all.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Tipping is an American thing....could not say why this is so....but it is...right...wrong...good...bad..who is to say....my opinion is that Americans tend to be very generous in general, give to any number of causes, etc, etc, and tipping is just part of it all.

Sorry, but if Americans (and Canadians... it's not just an "American thing") were so generous, they'd pay people adequately. This is not about generosity, or the lack thereof. There is a much deeper, and more complex, systemic issue going on.

As individuals, all we can do is make a choice based on the facts on the ground. In areas where tips are an essential part of a worker's income, then it is necessary to provide it. This is the worst way to compensate people for the work they do, but it would be unfair to punish the workers. It's not a tip. It's part of the wage.

But in areas where tipping has not yet taken hold, the best we can do is resist making it so. Tell the management you believe their staff is underpaid, and you will be taking your business elsewhere. And do so. Only this will change behaviour.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sorry, but if Americans (and Canadians... it's not just an "American thing") were so generous, they'd pay people adequately. .

I’m at a loss to think of workers who are not paid adequately. Teachers are commonly cited as underpaid, but here we have an interesting conundrum. Having a kid in school, I can say the teachers aren’t worth what they’re paid, there dumb as stumps. Had we started paying teachers years ago the same as engineers, some potential engineers would have gone into teaching. Then we would have better teachers, but then again a bunch would be working at fast food restaurants where they belong.

Tipping in USA isn’t and adder, it’s a portion of the wage left to the consumers election. Not surprisingly, crap service gets crap tips. Great service gets great tips. Ask the high performers in food service. It’s the low performers that complain (no surprise).

I tip the guys who work on my car. Oddly enough it’s always done right and on time. The owner knows I tip his guys, and again oddly enough I seem to get some sort of discount.

I tip well at our favorite restaurant. When I call we get a table at the last minute- even if I do get the lecture. Beyond that the owner and staff have become friends.

I tip the marina staff. I don’t do it to ensure my work is done first, but that does happen.

I tip to say thank you for a job well done. To let another human know that their extra bit of attention and professionalism is appreciated. OK over my lifetime it’s cost me but it’s paid back in spades.

$5 is nothing to me. But to the gal who pumped our holding tank it’s a nice perk. I’d rather have the choice of who my money goes to than let the government fleece me and distribute it at random.

[mlydon]

Osprey,

If you’re in the states, don’t go to the same restaurant twice. Waitstaff gets paid $5 /hr plus tips. Tips are pooled and split between waitstaff typically, with a percentage to busboys. Dishwashers get zip, and aspire to higher positions, cooks get paid a full salary. Bar staff give a split to busboys, for running ice and empties, etc.

Other countries have other customs, but that’s the way it is here. If your not tipping 15-20%, you’re shafting people big time.

Matt

[thinwater]

Here we go again....


I'm assuming the marina did not have a DIY option. If there is a DIY option and you don't tip, that is rude.


If it is a fee service my feelings are mixed. Is the marina overpriced to start with? Does the guy who pumps out the port-a-johns all day get tipped (no)?


Is it a messy or nasty job? Only if you do it all wrong. Done properly, it is about the same as pumping gas. Do you tip the fuel dock? Some do, most don't.


I think the whole tipping culture is stupid, and evil from the top down. And we did it to ourselves. But I do tip in restaurants, a high percentage at cheap places, and lower percentage as the cost goes up, since I don't see what percentage has to do with it; it is the gross amount that matters.

[Tellie]

I wonder why marinas and their employees rather deal with power boaters and why they think sailors are a cheap lot. After reading this thread, I just can't put my finger on it.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

..tips ARE the wages for waiters/waitresses in restaurants......at the and of the evening they usually give a cut of their tips to the busboys, kitchen staff, etc...they are paid a small salary by the restaurant, but it is not much...it varies from place to place....bartenders also make the bulk of their income from tips...

An old myth...law states that if you add in tips and it's not enough to at least hit minimum wage, the business has to make up the difference. On the other hand, it's very easy for tipped staff to commit tax evasion as there is generally minimal paper trail. So long as they don't get stupid about it, it's pretty easy to hide 20-30% of their income from the govt.

By the way, go into a restaurant and ask the wait staff to accept say $12-15/hr wage and refuse all tips...I'll give you 10-1 odds, 75% refuse and the other 25% will want to change their answer once they see the difference.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Well I fear this thread will soon be closed for drifting away from cruising discussion. But I'll try to throw my inflation-adjusted $0.16 in before that happens.

In response to Paul and Valhalla's discussion of minimum wage changes, I found the below chart which I thought was rather illuminating.

The red line indicates inflation-adjusted minimum wage in 2016 dollars. It shows that the purchasing power of minimum wage decreased substantially from the 70's to the 80's, but has overall trended about flat since then.

The light blue line translates the minimum wage, still in 2016 dollars, but matched to the growth rate of non-supervisory production workers (low skill but not unskilled work) wages.

The dark blue line translates the minimum wage, still in 2016 dollars, but matched to the growth rate of a measure of total economic growth.

2 aspects of this chart jump out at me. First, the growth rate of minimum wage, growth in low-skill workers wages, and total economic growth rates were all very similar from the 50's up to 1968, when those growth rates abruptly diverged.

Second, since 1968, we've seen minimum wage workers earn a bit less, low skill wages stagnate, and total economic growth continue on the same growth pattern as before 1968. This indicates that the wealth generated by overall economic growth is not reaching low-skill or unskilled workers. Whether or not this wealth should reach low-skill and unskilled workers if a discussion firmly rooted in politics and I won't drag us there.

Now, to try and use this information to address the original purpose of the thread: I agree with other posters that tipping culture in the US is overall harmful because it allows certain kinds of employers to pay their workers less than a living wage, and places the responsibility for the workers' livelihoods on the customer. However, that is not the worker's fault, so if we patronize a business whose employees rely on tips for a living wage, we must tip. Since I disagree with the practice, I try to avoid patronizing those businesses, but cannot always do so.

In the case of tipping the marina dock hand, I have found that there is not really a consensus among the marinas in my area. At my home dock, pumpouts are done from a boat that comes around to each slip periodically. Often I am not even on board when it happens, and so there is no opportunity to tip for a pumpout. The cost of these pumpouts is included in my monthly slip fee. Because my home marina doesn't seem to be a place where workers expect or rely on tips, my baseline assumption is that other docks I visit are the same way. Sometimes that assumption is wrong. Sometimes I remember this fact and tip a dock hand. Sometimes I don't remember this fact and fail to tip, potentially harming a worker who relies on tips for a living wage. When I do tip, it is usually in the range of $5 if all they did was hand me a hose (for pumpout or fuel), $10 if they helped secure me on the dock in adverse conditions, or if it took them more than about 5 minutes to help me. I have never tipped a percentage of my fuel purchase, which seems to be the practice of some power boaters. If I did tip, for example, 15% of my fuel purchase, the tip amount would usually be around the same $5 I tip for handing me a hose.

Source for the chart is here:
https://www.epi.org/publication/the-...s-of-inaction/

If the expected result is that people maintain the same purchasing power, inflation adjusted wages should be a level line on the graph...looks like that's pretty much what your graph shows.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Tellie

I wonder why marinas and their employees rather deal with power boaters and why they think sailors are a cheap lot. After reading this thread, I just can't put my finger on it.

Do they or are you just projecting?

The only folks I know who tipped like crazy were the drunk guys with the bikini clad optional equipment who are trying to show off.

[MicHughV]

Interestingly, in my neck of the woods, since the pandemic, restaurants are begging for waitstaff, kitchen staff, etc, offering sign up bonuses, higher pay, etc...so who knows....I see "want signs" everywhere...all offering $$$$....

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If the expected result is that people maintain the same purchasing power, inflation adjusted wages should be a level line on the graph...looks like that's pretty much what your graph shows.

As I said, the discussion of whether minimum wage should grow along with overall economic growth is a firmly political discussion which doesn't belong on CF.

[flee27]

As this discussion proves this is a complicated issue. In general I agree that tips should be a thank you or reward for service that is above and beyond, at the discretion of the customer.

All of the statements that basically state that it is the consumers job to subsidize the employees payroll because they are underpaid is my problem. This just shouldn't be the consumers responsibility. And now that tipping is expected, those that don't tip or don't tip enough are the bad buys. Or as stated above get put at the end of the line for a service because the don't tip which I understand but also don't think is correct. It blows the door wide open for problems and corruption. IMO.

Still think it is an interesting discussion we are having.

Foster

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by gonesail

i wasn't aware that marina employees worked for tips. a 5 minute pumpout is part of the service they provide

Having spent the last 27 years earning my living in marinas (and part of that time owning a pumpout service), I have never been to a marina where staff did pumpouts, for tips or anything else.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Is it a messy or nasty job? Only if you do it all wrong. Done properly, it is about the same as pumping gas.

OMG- the cavalier attitude about handling somebody else's sh*t and piss. Unbelievable. And clearly you've never taken a sh*t shower when some genius overfilled his holding take and the contents (under pressure) exploded out when you removed the cap from the deck plate. Because I guarantee that happens.