Tipping

[smj]

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

Technically, the question was answered in the first reply. But this would be a rather boring forum if every thread was only two or three posts long, IMHO.

Funny, I had to go back to the original post as I forgot what was asked……

[SailRN]

I always thought the reason dock staff didn't do the pump out or the fueling was due to the problems of liability for scuffing the deck, damaging threads, or being accused of any other damage or issue.

Litigious society, but don't sue me, I wasn't talking about you, your family, friends, staff, acquaintances, or anybody in this universe actually.

[Peeew]

What happened today is when all this gets out of hand. Lunch in the Bahamas at a small island, beach bar. Bill was $19.25. I gave her a $20 and another 20, asked her to break the second one. She put $20 in the register and the other in her tip jar, started to walk away. I told her that I wanted the $20 broken into smaller bills not for her to keep it. She gave me a dirty look and two tens. I left her the change in my pocket. I tried to be understanding and a decent tipper but she blew it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

(News flash: research can be wrong.)

True, but personal anecdote is the most problematic form of data.

There's an extensive research literature on the whole tipping phenomena. Most of it focuses on the restaurant industry. The whole history of tipping in the USA is also darkly fascinating. People who are quick to embrace it as a representing generosity really aught to take the time to look into its origins, and to understand its effects on workers, and society in general.

[SailRN]

This is great! Gives me another whole chapter for my rants,er, discussion, in my new book,


The Care and Feeding of My Pet Peeves, due out in 2055. Pre-orders accepted (can I advertise here?).


Excerpts from Chapter 3785:

1. I earn my money with hard work.
   
   
2. I don't like EXPECTED or mandatory tipping, and avoid those places.
   
   
3. And definitely don't feel any obligation to tip anyone for doing their job, regardless of their salary.
   
   
4. I don't expect to be tipped, but am thankful if I am.
   
   
5. I favor earned tipping for someone having gone above and beyond, but it is not an obligation.
   
   
6. Almost always I write comments on the restaurant’s paper receipt for the wait staff and the management. Having founded and run a small business for many years I appreciated knowing how my clients felt, and appreciated the opportunity to correct an issue rather than wondering why that client never came back. We all make mistakes, and I appreciate the opportunity to make it right. Not many feel that way…
   
   
7. Grace is freely given and accepted. I'll snug your lines if they've worked loose without thought of even a thank you. I wouldn't even tell you unless I feel you need to know to prevent re-occurrence or further damage, etc. I'll freely assist the unknown boat rafted next to ours at Coinjock with their electronics. Same reason I volunteer to do free medical clinics, CPR training, Salvation Army, etc., IT BENEFITS ME in ways money can't.
   
   
8. But I really RESENT those people who tell me what I need to do with MY money, how much I should tip if at all, and those that feel they have the right to put their hands in my wallet
   
   
9. It is not my responsibility or obligation to ensure the amount someone else makes unless I have hired them as my employee.
   
   
10. You can omit a tip and rest assured that Federal law (U.S.A.) REQUIRES all staff, including waiters and waitresses, to be paid the minimum wage, some places require more than the federal minimum wage be paid. The restaurant must make up for any insufficiency in tips to make the minimum wage.
    
    
11. And if a service was performed just for tipping, forget about it, i.e., those people that run up at traffic lights and wipe your windshield without being asked to do so, or even asking if I'd like it done.
    
    
12. And I'm really against the percentage method of determining a tip. If I go into an expensive restaurant and tip by percentage, and later go into an inexpensive restaurant and tip by percentage, then there is a disparity. Using percentages I pay the expensive restaurant server much more money for equal or less service than that provided at the inexpensive restaurant! And frankly I often get much better service at the less expensive restaurant.
    
    
13. I wonder who “they” were that suggested tipping going up from 10% to first 15%, then 18%, and now 20% or more? I suspect that restaurants did this to get more money so there was less burden on them to pay actual wages. And as prices have been increasing for many decades, then the percentage tip has also been increasing. The Lord our God only asks for 10%, and I'm much more thankful and grateful to Him than I am to anyone else! And governmental taxes for restaurant food is 7% here and they give me fire protection and roads, the server just gave me a hamburger and a RC Cola.
    
    
14. I do tip though. I base any tip on the level of service provided. Was my drink refilled by an attentive person or did I have to call someone over? Was the table properly set or did I have to borrow salt from the next table over? Was my order correct and in good condition, or did the server not pay any attention to ensure my correct order, correctly prepared, and properly presented, or did I have to ask again for my favorite condiments, or was the food overcooked, but brought out anyway?
    
    
15. And was I overcharged? Rather than waste my time getting it corrected, I deduct that overcharged amount from any tip I make, or if it was more than I planned to tip, I’ll waste some time getting their mistake corrected, but probably wouldn’t leave a tip for wasting my time.
    
    
16. I’ll also go back into a store or restaurant if I discover I was charged too little, but, as my time is valuable to me if they have to waste my time and call a supervisor, I tell them to forget it.
    
    
17. And I also observe the time spent on my meal by the server. If I’m there for an hour I’m not going to tip them for the whole hour if they only spent 12 minutes of that hour on me. I’ll tip for only the time spent on me, not the time they’re with other customers. I allow more time than just table-side, for preparing my drink or similar activities.
    
    
18. And if you actually do some calculations involving the amount of time spent serving you, say maybe less than 12 minutes in an hour's visit, and the number of other customers they're serving during that hour, and then calculate your tip and estimating most of the other customers are probably tipping to the norm, you will likely find they make more per hour than you do, and in often unreported and untaxed income.
    Consider this, if you feel they should be paid $20/h, and they spend only 12 minutes of the hour in total dealing with your meal, then your share for that 12 minutes is $20/h * 0.2 h = $4.00. If your tip is $10 for that hour, then you really just paid them $10/0.2 h = $50/h! More than I make as a Registered Nurse unless I'm on a travel contract. And multiply that by 4 or 5 other customers and you get $200/h or $250/h!

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by SailRN

Consider this, if you feel they should be paid $20/h, and they spend only 12 minutes of the hour in total dealing with your meal, then your share for that 12 minutes is $20/h * 0.2 h = $4.00. If your tip is $10 for that hour, then you really just paid them $10/0.2 h = $50/h! More than I make as a Registered Nurse unless I'm on a travel contract. And multiply that by 4 or 5 other customers and you get $200/h or $250/h![/FONT][/LIST]

You already counted the other customers when you calculated the $50/hr. I won't actually comment on anything else you posted, just pointing out a small math error. If you tip $10 for 12 minutes, the only way the server gets $50 that hour is if 4 other tables also tipped $10 in that same hour.

[SailRN]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

You already counted the other customers when you calculated the $50/hr. I won't actually comment on anything else you posted, just pointing out a small math error. If you tip $10 for 12 minutes, the only way the server gets $50 that hour is if 4 other tables also tipped $10 in that same hour.

Hi Jeb Lost in Space,


Thank you for your book review in part. No, the math is correct as I'm referring to a rate, not a total. I can see that I should rewrite that to be clearer.


If your refrigerator uses 50 Ah of energy, that is a total, but the rate (current) might be 20 A for 2.5 h. So if your refrigerator runs for only 12 minutes at 20 A, then it consumed 4 Ah.



If you pay someone $10 for 0.2 h (12 minutes), the rate is $50/h.


You're paying someone $50/h, so if they work 1 h they get $50, if they work for 1/2 hour, they get $25, and if they work for you for 12 minutes, they get $10, but all this is at a rate of $50/h.



I sometimes joke with family that in 1 s I bent down and picked up a penny, so I just made $36/h. $0.01/1 s*60 minutes/h * 60 s/minute, so if I pick up one penny every second for an hour, I made $36 at a rate of $36/h, If I only "work" for 1 s, I get $0.01, but at a rate of $36/h.


If I'd been talking total amounts and not the rate, then the server would have $50 at the end of the hour, but I broke it apart this way to illustrate what that 12 minutes they spend with you equates to.



I certainly am not responsible or obligated in any way for any of their income, especially for the time they're not taking care of me.



Hope this helps.

[johnn33]

This may be a little off topic, but to see what life has been in the past, and still is for many without security and a future, do read

Down and Out in London and Paris George Orwell 1933


Tips are important.



Also, to benefit all, in the UK many restaurants use the tronc

John

[AKA-None]

So tell me how do servers in England and Germany get by without tips?

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by SailRN

Hi Jeb Lost in Space,


Thank you for your book review in part. No, the math is correct as I'm referring to a rate, not a total. I can see that I should rewrite that to be clearer.


If your refrigerator uses 50 Ah of energy, that is a total, but the rate (current) might be 20 A for 2.5 h. So if your refrigerator runs for only 12 minutes at 20 A, then it consumed 4 Ah.



If you pay someone $10 for 0.2 h (12 minutes), the rate is $50/h.


You're paying someone $50/h, so if they work 1 h they get $50, if they work for 1/2 hour, they get $25, and if they work for you for 12 minutes, they get $10, but all this is at a rate of $50/h.



I sometimes joke with family that in 1 s I bent down and picked up a penny, so I just made $36/h. $0.01/1 s*60 minutes/h * 60 s/minute, so if I pick up one penny every second for an hour, I made $36 at a rate of $36/h, If I only "work" for 1 s, I get $0.01, but at a rate of $36/h.


If I'd been talking total amounts and not the rate, then the server would have $50 at the end of the hour, but I broke it apart this way to illustrate what that 12 minutes they spend with you equates to.



I certainly am not responsible or obligated in any way for any of their income, especially for the time they're not taking care of me.



Hope this helps.

I was unclear in my post actually. I'm with you on the $50/hr rate. The issue is when you state that with others also tipping $10 for 12 minutes of work, the server makes $250/hr. That can only be true if several customers are tipping $10 for the same 12 minutes. In reality, other customers tipping $10 for 12 minutes of work just increases the amount of time that the server can work for $50/hr.

In your example of picking up a penny, it is the difference between picking up one penny in one second, vs. picking up 5 pennies in 5 seconds. In both cases you make $36/hr.

If however you picked up a nickel in one second, you would be earning $180/hr for that second (assuming I did that mental math right after several St Paddy's beers lol). This seems to be what you are claiming the server manages to do if several customers all tip $10, unless I am mis-reading your first post.

[SailRN]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

I was unclear in my post actually. I'm with you on the $50/hr rate. The issue is when you state that with others also tipping $10 for 12 minutes of work, the server makes $250/hr. That can only be true if several customers are tipping $10 for the same 12 minutes. In reality, other customers tipping $10 for 12 minutes of work just increases the amount of time that the server can work for $50/hr.

In your example of picking up a penny, it is the difference between picking up one penny in one second, vs. picking up 5 pennies in 5 seconds. In both cases you make $36/hr.

If however you picked up a nickel in one second, you would be earning $180/hr for that second (assuming I did that mental math right after several St Paddy's beers lol). This seems to be what you are claiming the server manages to do if several customers all tip $10, unless I am mis-reading your first post.

Thank you, you are correct. And in my rush to publish I worded it poorly and did not write it as clearly as I meant. I'll fix it in the published edition. While you're drinking, would you like to order a few copies in advance? I'm thinking of giving you an acknowledgment of thanks in the opening pages...

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

So tell me how do servers in England and Germany get by without tips?

My son works as an experienced barman in Melbourne, Australia.
His base wage is around $25 an hour (or 12.5 Mars Bars if you’re familiar with that index).
He is full-time so he gets annual leave and sick leave as well.

Any tips are pooled and shared equally among all staff.
He normally gets around $20-30 in tips for a night’s work and they are definitely seen as a bonus, not a part of his wage.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

My son works as an experienced barman in Melbourne, Australia.
His base wage is around $25 an hour (or 12.5 Mars Bars if you’re familiar with that index).
He is full-time so he gets annual leave and sick leave as well.

Any tips are pooled and shared equally among all staff.
He normally gets around $20-30 in tips for a night’s work and they are definitely seen as a bonus, not a part of his wage.

I never pay more than one dollar Au ( that's $1 australian not a gold dollar ) for Mars Bars.
A better index is the Big Mac as they don't go 'on special' at Woolies or IGA every few weeks.
Best to use the Mars Bar Index on Bitcoin.

Tipping? In Chile it turned up about 6 years ago if you 'dined in'.
An 'optional extra ' or 'propina' - on your bill. 10%
Sweet young thing would always ask '¿bien?'
Well I'm a sucker for a pretty face and know how easy it would be for her to kick my chair out from under me....

For the OP?
I think I would look after the bloke emptying my turd tank.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

So tell me how do servers in England and Germany get by without tips?

Waiters in many countries are payed a living wage and tips are a bonus.

Back in the days of the big ocean liners passos would give their steward an advance at the start of the voyage with the implied suggestion that -if they were well looked after- there would be more to come.

Making sure you always had your deck chair available was a good earner for the topside people.

[SailRN]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Back in the days of the big ocean liners passos would give their steward an advance at the start of the voyage with the implied suggestion that -if they were well looked after- there would be more to come.

Making sure you always had your deck chair available was a good earner for the topside people.

Ahhh, that was clearly a bribe!