Tipping

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by SailRN

I agree with Osprey877 msg #13 that expected tipping is a bad idea.


Attachment 254535


I do know that restaurants in the U.S.A. rely on the customer to pay the waiter or waitress a tip, but at least at the time I was an assistant manager at a restaurant the employer was required by law to ensure the server was paid at least the minimum wage, and if that wage wasn't met by tips the restaurant had to make up the difference.


So, unless the law has changed, all waiters and waitresses always make at least the minimum wage, either by tips or by the restaurant's payroll. And frequently the service they provide isn't worth the minimum wage.


So, you can omit the tip and know that the server is getting at least minimum wages.


And if you actually do some calculations involving the amount of time spent serving you, say maybe less than 12 minutes in an hour's visit, and the number of other customers they're serving during that hour, and then calculate your tip and estimating most of the other customers are probably tipping similarly, you will likely find they make more per hour than you do, and in often unreported and untaxed income.

Consider this, if you feel they should be paid $20/h, and they spend only 12 minutes of the hour in total dealing with your meal, then your share for that 12 minutes is $20/h * 0.2 h = $4.00. If your tip is $10 for that hour, then you really just paid them $10/0.2 h = $50/h! More than I make as a Registered Nurse unless I'm on a travel contract. And multiply that by 4 or 5 other customers and you get $200/h or $250/h!

And I'm really against the percentage method of determining a tip. If I go into an expensive restaurant and tip by percentage, and later go into an inexpensive restaurant and tip by percentage, then there is a disparity. Using percentages I may pay the expensive restaurant server much more money for equal or less service than that provided at the inexpensive restaurant! And frankly I often get much better service at the less expensive restaurant. Wonder why that is?

And as prices have been increasing for many decades, then the percentage tip has also been increasing, so who said it now has to be 20% or more instead of the older 10%? The Lord our God only asks for 10%, and I'm much more thankful and grateful to Him than I am to anyone else! And governmental taxes for restaurant food is 7% here and they give me fire protection and roads, the server just gave me a hamburger and a RC Cola.

I use a system which rewards each individual action, for example such as being attentive and refilling my drink without my having to ask, and a little less if I have to ask for a refill. This allows me to be more equitable to the server regardless of prices charged by the restaurants.

Expected tips are really just bribery. Earned tips for service above and beyond reward those that work harder. Expected tips allow shoddy service with the expectation of a tip anyway.

And I've worked in jobs that may often be tipped, but even so I don't expect a tip; I'm not owed a tip, but I am thankful of course if I get one. I volunteer as an unpaid instructor to teach CPR/AED and First Aid for community groups and if I'm teaching in a clubhouse in a gated community I sometimes put out a tip jar, but it has a label that a tip is not expected but is appreciated.

And on another note: As licensed persons are generally excluded from gratuities, and I am a licensed Registered Nurse, gratuities are neither expected or accepted, even if gratuities are given for personal service, and there is probably nothing more personal than sticking a tube up someone's bottom. Just sayin'. Maybe I should put out a tip jar?

Love it! I used to carry a printed card in my wallet just like what you started your post with. I would hand it out to anyone who either disliked my level of tip or made a stink because I didn't tip at all (for things where tips just are not warranted).


Tipping has become a huge crutch in the US. And it doesn't improve the level of service that you received on TODAY's experience because you tip AFTER the experience. It may help the next time if you return and if you have the same person helping you.

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by edlepera

Years ago 1996 was at a pump out there were kids running it for their parents. The guy before was berating the kids not to make a mess don’t spill. The kids were very meticulous, polite and smile. That idiot didn’t tip. We got alongside. Those kids gave us the same great service. We tipped both of them 5 dollars each. Later at the marina restaurant the idiot was there complaining again. We were sitting with one of the marinas owners. We mention the pump out station scene we saw. They owners kicked him out of the marina. Some about his insurance being inadequate. Rudeness does come back on rude people

Not to split hairs here, but surely being “meticulous, polite and smile” was part of the job, and what the parents were giving the kids pocket money for? If they’d dived in to the water to retrieve dropped keys, or run to the shops to get a bag of ice, that’d be above and beyond (and IMHO worthy of a tip), but it seems they just did what they were supposed to do.

I don’t want to take away from your anecdote that karma has a great way of biting people (and it’s always great to see a**holes getting a good ol’ dose of it) - I guess the whole American tipping culture just baffles me.

N

[Sidney777]

Opinion: It's pumping out your sh.... and not the 15 minutes that I would give a tip for.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

I guess the whole American tipping culture just baffles me.

Don't worry... it baffles most people, including those of us who are within the system (Canada is really not that different). It's a constant question, as can be seen here with this thread.

One thing I will highlight though is the notion of "when in Rome..." It has been pointed out (rightly) that in places where the faux-tip has taken root, it is wrong not to pay this addition fee. The workers depend on it. But the same approach needs to be taken when people travel to places that have not succumbed to this practice.

If you are from a faux-tipping culture (mostly Americans and Canadians, I would say), then don't export your practice to places that don't. Don't just reflexively hand out additional cash. Make sure it's an actual tip (i.e. for service well beyond expectation).

Just as we expect visitors to pay attention to our customs, and "do as the Romans do," so too should we follow local custom, and not export our faux-tipping system to places that don't follow it. And the same goes for expanding the system here in North America (and satellites). Some areas have succumbed to the practice, but its expansion can, and should be, resisted here as well.

[Kelkara]

It's not just the USA ... I have been caught out in Egypt, where people that I would have assumed were employees of a business were essentially unpaid and dependent on a "tip" ... the difficulty "when in rome" is knowing who.

[Martinini]

I don't tip for things like pump out service required by law. It is part and parcel of the operation of their business. People needlessly tipping every time a dock hand grabs a line is just ridicules. THAT KIND OF STUFF IS PART OF THEIR JOB!!!! They already look at us as money pits as it is! Incessant Tipping doesn't help. Sorry guys-- tip for things over and above whats required! Bet you weren't given the opportunity to do it yourself. I am talking USA.

[classicone]

Have working experience on both sides of the issue. Understand and when in Rome like the saying goes.
That is why I have a composting toilet! We sailors are a self reliant bunch.

It is so much better to choose to live with expenses below the "living wage syndrome" and save the excess than to always be trying to play catch up with the others spending more.

Seriously, if fuel prices continue as they have, powerboaters will be looking for tips to fill their tanks or just not travel as far.

[ben2go]

Originally Posted by sagablu

This is an easy question. Ask yourself, how much you would like to be tipped for pumping out someone else's poo. There is your answer.

[KWF]

Originally Posted by psk125

No tipping is allowed at the club, and we carry our own ice. Dockhands or launch drivers elsewhere who are extremely helpful might get something extra, but we don't lug wads of cash around.

You have a Sabre in Southport and you “might” give a dockhand or launch driver not in your club something extra. I’m at a yacht club in Greenwich and have observed members tipping during our long distance club cruises. Unless you have a very severe hernia the weight of the “wad of cash” involved is unlikely to to cause a problem.

[ms.lau]

Tipping is wrong for many reasons. Workers should be adequately paid for the job they do.

[PaulCrawhorn]

I have had LOTS of tips refused overseas, and made clear offering one directly was an insult to a well paid professional .

A bit of change you don't want to bother picking up, just left for the person clearing is different

[PaulCrawhorn]

Being well paid means service staff are free to be "uppity" obnoxious to too-demanding customers or those who think they can treat them like servants.

Personally I live seeing that, especially when it happens to USians.

Equality, fraternity, screw classism

[Allied39]

LOL!! Are you lot still at it?

Ok, let me break it down, most non Americans dont like tipping ....for several reasons including they pay so much for everything they have no money to tip with, it's so hard to work out the numbers....soo really hard and lastly they have never lived on tips and made REALLY GOOD money.

Most Americans understand tipping, have the money to throw a little about and they generally tip at least ok, if not well.....because likely they have been on the other side of things.....probably when they were young and now make the real money.

Minimum wage is designed for beginners, kids. You are not supposed be forty and living on minimum wage....if you are....you have bigger problems than how much you get paid.

Is that clear enough for everybody?? (rhetorical question). Oh, and lastly you are not going to convince eachother.
It's not possible to get an aussie to understand that $70 (half of that tax!) for 24 budweisers is just ludicrous and you cant get an American to believe that they pay that for formaldehyde.believe me I have tried .....total waste of time on both sides of that.

And this is exactly the same.

But, having said all that.....get back at it....I'll have another look at this joke in a few days.

[PaulCrawhorn]

The minimum wage was supposed to provide a living wage, enough to raise a family, buy a home, what we used to call a middle class lifestyle.

The fact that it was not stringently indexed to consumer inflation, especially local housing costs is a war crime, oligarchs waging class warfare and winning with the assistance of a government taken over by the capitalists. Democrats very much included, not far from fascism these past 50-60 years.

Every citizen deserves as their birthright a dignified life, whether employed or not. And certainly those working over 30 hours a week even more so.

[Chotu]

Dockhand’s note to self: definitely help all power boats to fuel up first. Then maybe if there is time or space let some cheap sailboat in to fuel up their $100 tank and stiff you on the tip too. Do the absolute minimum for them.


And we wonder why we aren’t as well received as other boats at the marinas and fuel docks. Why we have to wait.