Ultimate Gun Thread

[beau]

this is not just about guns.

I would like to see a survey on how many Americans carry guns on boats compared to everyone else.
I am Australian, I lived in California for 10 years, every American I knew had guns in their home, lots of them.
Apparently it was all about hunting, they like to hunt bear. With Utzi, and AK 47's etc

[capnorv]

I haven't hunted since I was 13, but I have guns for a hobby. Haven't carried on a boat since 2001. I'm American and not to proud of it these days,but it's still mine to defend. I've got 2 expert medals from over 35 years ago and practice sighting and trigger pull frequently. I share no illusions that I will win in a shootout, but there's always a looser.

[lawdawg]

Never confuse being proud of your government with being proud of your country. If it is legal I will carry, if not, I won't, and if it isn't legal to carry, and I don't feel my loved ones are safe if we aren't armed, then I don't need to be there anyway, happy holidays to all.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

I've been flapping around the oceans now since 1975, with the odd break when the money ran out. My totally unscientific assessment would be that the only boats I have met that do carry firearms are from the US or are superyachts.
Anybody else experienced the same, or different???

Yes that's my experience also, it's almost exclusively a US perspective. Mind you that's because in other developed countries the idea is that guns are sporting implements and nothing to do with " protection" and in fact personal protection using a firearm is usually illegal in most countries. That why the customs requires you to hand them in. I personally have several guns but I have no time for the personal protection argument.

Also in my experience most US sailors carry guns are doing so in US waters or nearby waters where US boats are common.( why they feel the need to carry in these waters, is always beyond me) Further afield. It's rare to find a US boat carrying ( or maybe they,'re just carrying then illegally and keeping quite) . So this whole argument is really a domestic US argument and isn't applicable to places in the world that are somewhat unstable since the likelihood is that the practicalities of carry a firearm, abroad means that everyone is likely only blowing hot air about shooting pirates.

However these threads remain a valuable insight into the continuing paranoia that's seems to grip ordinary Americans. ( anf that is a genuine comment ). From a European perspective this aspect is always perplexing, we've had home grown and foreign terrorist activity on our soils for 40 years on and off ( from the Algerian war onwards) yet we haven't developed this massive personal and collective paranoia that "they're all out to get us". Yet citizens of one of, if not arguably the strongest countries in the world seem to think that lethal weapons are needed at their side all the time.

My personal view based on living in the US for many years , is that the personal protection and the right to carry is more a political argument to justify and maintain the relatively lax gun laws. Remember if no justification real or imagined really exists to support personal protection using firearms in a modern developed country , then one gets manufactured . Perhaps it's suits the argument ( both at home and on boats) that " they're all out to get me"

Genuinely perplexing

Happy Christmas
Dave

[Factor]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Guns don't kill people; people with guns kill people.

Nuclear bombs dont kill people - people with nuclear bombs kill people, the flu doesnt kill people people with the flu kill people,

[sailorboy1]

Well so far I doubt the debate is changing anyone's mind. Before it was closed the poll about guns and countries didn't seem to show gun carrying was higher for the US (maybe the criminals mostly don't boat).

But the poll results are much different than I expected. If I had been asked I would have said that maybe 10% of boats had guns (my wife did say this when I asked her). I would guess most are surprised also. I could probably get more responders to the poll if I changed the wording/way I posted it that didn't have the word "gun" in title of inital post. But really it doesn't matter if guns are on 45% of boats or only 25%. To me that is still a lot of guns!

[Blue Stocking]

RE: Interpreting statistics.

Some years ago in the Turin Car Show, the U.S and Russia were the only countries to enter a vehicle in a certain limousine category. The U.S vehicle won first place , the Russian, second.
Pravda reported the Russian had come 2nd--and the American, next to last.
Hmmmmmmm!!

[sailorboy1]

thats all about how you play with poll numbers, doesn't change the numbers (there are lots of ways to effect poll votes though), no such thing a perfect poll/survey

[chala]

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

Like the cable cutters you didn't buy but really wish you had when you need them to cut rigging free when the mast comes down. and of course if you don't know how to use the cutters, no sense in having them aboard.

May be some one could start a poll on cable cutters; I use them on land but do not have any onboard. See no necessity.

[kenny chaos]

I vote that the only good gun thread is the one that has to be closed.

[aegean adrift]

In sorting podcast files on mobile, came across this one again ...

DO GUNS REDUCE CRIME? | Intelligence Squared US

Especially interesting: 36-year law-enforcement veteran R. Gil Kerlikowske argues that guns do not reduce crime.

[DennisM]

Sometimes I take a firearm on a cruise. Sometimes I don't. I haven't really made up my mind which is appropriate. I certainly have never felt a need to have one or use one aboard - at least not yet. I don't know if I'll take one along on my next cruise or not. I'm an ex-cop, and through my years of competition, I achieved the NRA distinction of Distinguished Pistol Expert. I feel comfortable with a gun around, but don't feel uncomfortable without one.

[Mark Johnson]

Without a doubt, in the parts of the world that most "rational people" would choose to cruise, guns onboard not only make your cruising much more complicated, and you less welcome, they make you and your family far less safe. If they do get shot, it is more likely to be with YOUR gun, or perhaps the angry or fearful cruiser next to you, because you drug into him.

In the occasional cases of a boat being boarded by petty thieves, (in third world countries), they usually have either no weapons at all, or perhaps a machete, but almost NEVER a gun. In these countries guns are VERY hard to come by, and it is not legal to kill someone that is an apparent threat, if he has a machete and you have a gun. Your boat will be confiscated and YOU WILL GO TO JAIL FOR A LONG TIME! The same is true if you simply, don't declare your guns. They take this VERY serious!

I'm not suggesting being a pacifist. An excellent deterrent to someone trying to board your boat is Wasp Spray (effective for 20'), or closer up... pepper spray. If they are trying to make off with your dinghy, a Wrist Rocket sling shot and ball bearings is quite effective. Because they are non lethal ways to get the person off of your boat in a hurry, they do not have the moral imperative to wait for a considerable length of time to find out if the person is really a threat, because 95% of them are not. They are just dirt poor, petty thieves.

There is no absolute safety, and ultimately, none of us gets out alive, however, If you really want to improve your odds of a violence and crime free experience when you visit a third world country, this is how you do it:

Learn about their culture before you get there... I have come back to my boat to find a bunch of indian kids on deck. They were harmless & merely curious about Norte Americanos' barca. Simply sitting down & exchanging awkward smiles worked here. NO ONE deserves to die for their ignorance of our boat etiquette, or because we are fearful of what they MIGHT do. The guy approaching in a dugout probably wants to bum a cigarette!
Even among third world thieves, killing their victims is just not their M.O. Your safest route is to defuse the situation with profound politeness and cooperation, rather than escalate the situation by brandishing a gun.

Listen to radio nets, and avoid the dangerous countries, areas, coves, people, and neighborhoods.

If you still need to pass through or anchor in these places, do so in company of other boats.

Use motion detector alarms on deck in the above situation.

Don't have ANYTHING loose on deck, like coolers, jugs, fishing gear, etc.

Your big prize is the Dinghy or it's OB motor. Use one of those pipe locks on the motor & string up the dink EVERY night.

Have subtle boom level anchor lights to illuminate the deck.

Don't walk around on shore drunk or late at night.

When you leave the boat, leave the stereo going so it appears that you are still home.

Don't wear jewelry, fancy watches, or the trappings of our comparative wealth on shore. "Dress down". Also, PAY ATTENTION to your surroundings.

The safest route is to cruise SMART, not armed with lethal weapons...

This being Christmas eve, PEACE everyone!

Mark

[Bruce Johnson]

You're not paranoid if everyone really is out to get you.

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

... My totally unscientific assessment would be that the only boats I have met that do carry firearms are from the US or are superyachts. Anybody else experienced the same, or different???

Not at all. Most cruisers keep their armament status private - I certainly do. Still, I know a Kiwi boat & an Aussi boat that carry, & a few French boats. In Martinique (& presumably other French territories) you could legally buy an over/under 2-shot pistol that fired a pair of shotgun shells. Looked like a .45 on steroids.

More to the point is the French attitude. Years ago a friend was boarded & searched by a French Customs boat in the E Carib. The captian noticed a suspiciosly triangular cushion & asked "Pistol?" My friend answered "Yes." The Customs officer replied "Bon" (Good).